October 29, 2005
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The series on Roman Catholicism is now concluded. For those who are new here, you can read about why the Mass, Traditions and Justification by works are all wicked damnable heresies.
From tomorrow, Saturday, two new series will be starting, and I’ll be alternating between posting on 1) Saving Faith 2) on the Psalms. Here is a plan –
Saturday, “The Psalms are NOT David’s experiences”
Sunday, “Saving Faith is a bare belief of the bare truth”
Monday, “How the Apostles interpreted the Psalms”
Tuesday, “Faith is NOT a hand, it is merely belief.”
As always, I will be appealing ONLY to the Scriptures, NOT to John Calvin or the Westminster Confession. And with regard to the Psalms — since “no prophecy is of any private interpretation”, we will only hear what the Apostles have to say, and not those perverted “commetators”.
Let God be true and every man a liar.
P.S. A guy called Daniel Townsend objects to my view that all Arminians are lost. But he really understands where I am coming from, and is able to summarise my position well. Here is what he wrote about my view –
Andrew Bain believes, “there are no conditions that we have to meet in order to be saved. The reason [believers] are God’s children is that Jesus died for us, not because of anything good we’ve done …[On the other hand] Arminians as non-Christian people who believe in a false gospel. … Believing in universal atonement is … equivalent of being an unbeliever. … Arminians teach that Christ’s work “was NOT enough to save everyone whom God loved.” … they are belittling Christ’s work … [and] Christianity … doesn’t allow for is rejecting Christ. [And]… Arminians … reject Christ. I certainly … dismiss Arminians as non-Christians. [This means] dismissing writers like C.S. Lewis, Rich Mullins, Martin Luther, Dietrich Bonhoeffer. … They were worshipping some other Deity … [the] “Arminian ‘god’”. To believe, as the Arminians do, that Christians can fall away and lose their salvation … belittles Christ’s work; … Believing a person can fall away is … the same thing as believing in works-righteousness. … Martin Luther believed that it is possible for Christians to fall away…. [this is] “blatant salvation condition on the sinner”! [Thus, in the same way Christ rejected the majority of Judaism, we are] dismissing the majority of Christendom, which … is Scriptural [and we] … pray for those that … are in [the snare of the devil, that they may be saved].”
Comments (12)
your hot
“Let God be true and every man a liar.”
…especially you.
that’s great that yur doing like series 4 God! i’m going 2 subscribe so i can check em’ out….yur like the 3rd i’ve subscribed 2 that duz stuff like this…..i guess i’m hoping i can gain stuff from ppl like u!….and i so far the other 2 rarely update….and u seem like u update like on a schedule! so i’m looking 4ward 2 yur new series!!! luv ya’s!
Blondie<3
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Andrew,
I just read the post you submitted to Theology Blog guest book and had a few thoughts I wanted to pass along.
As you continue to study theology and form opinions on the critical theological issues of the day, I would encourage you to never forget the focal point of Christianity, which is (1) to love God with all your heart and (2) to love your neighbor as yourself. Doctrinal accuracy void of love is lifeless and no better than doctrinal inaccuracy.
While I agree with much of what you said, the tone in which you said it could, at least in my opinion, sound very unloving. I agree with you that there are no conditions that we have to meet in order to be saved. The reason we are God’s children is that Jesus died for us, not because of anything good we’ve done, I agree.
Where you crossed the line though is when you had the audacity to dismiss Arminians as non-Christian people who believe in a false gospel. You might feel that believing in universal atonement is erroneous, but for crying out loud, that is not the equivalent of being an unbeliever. You are entirely mistaken in asserting Arminians teach that Christ’s work “was NOT enough to save everyone whom God loved.” It’s not that they are belittling Christ’s work; they merely have a different perspective of what part human free will plays into the equation. Christianity allows for differing perspectives on human free will. What it doesn’t allow for is rejecting Christ. But Arminians don’t reject Christ. To say they do is a thoroughly hollow accusation.
I personally disagree with Arminianism and am more in agreement with Calvinism, but I certainly don’t dismiss Arminians as non-Christians. To dismiss Christians that aren’t “Calvinists” would mean dismissing writers like C.S. Lewis, Rich Mullins, Martin Luther, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, etc…. all of which have profoundly impacted me.
It is unbelievably uncharitable for you to mockingly say “Arminian ‘god’” as if they were worshipping some other Deity. To believe, as the Arminians do, that Christians can fall away and lose their salvation doesn’t belittle Christ’s work; again, it merely shows a different perspective on what part human free will plays into the equation. Believing a person can fall away is not the same thing as believing in works-righteousness. For crying out loud, Martin Luther believed that it is possible for Christians to fall away. Surely you don’t accuse him of “blatant salvation condition on the sinner”!
You are so narrowly defining what it means to be a Christian that you are dismissing the majority of Christendom, which I don’t think is wise or Scriptural. I see nothing in your seven propositions that an Arminian couldn’t agree with.
As you seek to debate and come to your own convictions about what the Scripture teaches, pray for those that you believe are in error. Don’t be so quick to assign professing Christians to the flames. Doctrine is important, yes. But the Arminian who loves God and loves his neighbor is infinitely closer to Christ than the cold hearted Calvinist who in correct on every doctrine, but is void of love.
God bless you,
Daniel Townsend
i saw you subscribed to me, who are you?
God bless!
*mandy*
that’s cool! yeah let me know if you have any questions, i’ll be happy to tell you anything about UNC!
I have always wanted to go to Australia so you can tell me about it!
*mandy*
Andrew,
Thanks for replying to me. If you have time to elaborate on what you meant when you said, “You are following tradition and not Scripture,” I would appreciate it.
You quoted the Scripture, “The one not abiding in the doctrine of Christ has not God.” Would you explain to me your reasoning of how Arminians are not abiding in the doctrine of Christ? What “evil deeds” are you accusing them of? Thanks.
Hi again Daniel,
I said, “you are following tradition, and not Scripture”, and you asked what I meant.
I was refering to your appeal to CS Lewis, Luther etc. You wrote – ”I certainly don’t dismiss Arminians as non-Christians. To dismiss Christians that aren’t “Calvinists” would mean dismissing writers like C.S. Lewis, Rich Mullins, Martin Luther, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, etc…. all of which have profoundly impacted me. “
Here you are citing mere mortals as authorities. It’s a logical fallacy. For instance, Satan “profoundly impacted me” when I was unregenerate. I had “the spirit of error” “working” in my heart as a child “of disobedience”, “lying in wickedness” or the wicked one. My prayers were “to devils and not to God.”
Obviously, just because Satan “profoundly impacted me” doesn’t mean that he’s a true teacher, does it? Of course not.
So, with Lewis and Luther, just because they have influenced you, doesn’t make them true teachers UNLESS they preach “according to the Law and testimony”. And at this point, I’ll remind you of the verses I cited earlier –
“Everyone transgressing and not abiding in the doctrine of Christ does not have God.” (2 Jn 9)
And “the one speaking a greeting [to the person without the doctrine of Christ] shares in his evil works.” (v11).
And here’s how Arminians do not abide in the doctrine of Christ –
Arminians make man into a god. They say that right now the Holy Spirit is trying to save people everywhere who will actually never be saved. Apparently, God’s grace can be RESISTED. Arminians say these people are actually able to OVERPOWER God the Holy Spirit, so that these people are stronger than “God”. So, are not these people gods, in the mind of an Arminian?
Furthermore, Arminians make Adam into a god. They say that God FORESAW that Adam would eat the fruit, and THEN decided to send Christ. Apparently, Adam got to decide whether or not Christ was going to be a Savior. The power lay in the hands of Adam to determine whether or not Jehovah would justify His people. Is not Adam a god also, in the minds of Arminians?
andrew, you’ve said, “Here you are citing mere mortals as authorities. It’s a logical fallacy.”
but your ideas are what you have found to sound most true to you in your interpretation of Scripture. im not saying there is a relative truth in scripture, but what i am saying is what makes you so right? because you’re not following the tradition? is it just the fact that you think you have some “non-traditional” idea that makes you right? im not saying tradition is always right, im just saying that its not necessarily always wrong.
so basically, from what you’ve said here, i am to throw out all of my understanding of scripture because it is traditional and disregarud everything i’ve learned for what andrew believes scripture says….it just doesn’t make sense. to disregaurd my experiences and understandings (as well as the understandings of the church through the ages) and exchanfe it for one mans interpretation….?
G’day Ryan,
Regarding Tradition vs Scripture.
If you say Arminians are saved because so-and-so was Arminian (e.g. CS Lewis), then you are arguing from a mere mortal’s authority (in this case Lewis) in order to defend your theology. This was the problem with a guy called Daniel. He was saying that since CS Lewis “profoundly impacted” him, then Lewis must be saved. And from there, he concluded that Arminians are saved (since Lewis was an Arminian). From start to finish, Daniel was appealing to the authority of Lewis, and not to Scripture. Clearly, Daniel is a Traditionalist, not a Scripturalist.
OK, I hope that helps with the first part of the Tradition vs Scripture issue.
Next, you ask — “is it just the fact that you think you have some “non-traditional” idea that makes you right?”
My response: No! “It’s by faith we understand that the worlds we framed by the Word of God” and “by faith the elders obtained the good report.” (Heb11). It’s by the EVIDENCE of God’s Word believed in my conscience that conveys to me assurance that what I believe is true. Just because a doctrine is non-traditional doesn’t prove its truthfulness to the person. Noah, for instance, had a very non-traditional idea that the world was going to flood. He stood against a whole world of unbelief who were resisting and blaspheming against the Holy Spirit (by rejecting His Word). But again, Hebrews 11 says it was by “faith”, i.e. the TESTIMONY of God in the conscience that convicted Noah that he was right.
Andrew Bain
Sydney, Australia
If you don’t mind me asking, what denomination do you belong to?
Hi Daniel,
I don’t belong to any sects (i.e. “denominations”).
There are only two churches in the world — believers and unbelievers.
Andrew