May 18, 2006
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DEREK WEBB: A WARNING
Many lost Calvinists love Derek Webb. They need to be warned. One of Derek’s “great friends” and mentors is Don Miller. Indeed, Webb says “Don Miller is a friend and has written some pretty extraordinary books lately as well (blue like jazz, searching for God knows what).”
Webb also writes,
“…I definitely recommend Don Miller. Don is a good friend and a tremendous writer. Blue Like Jazz certainly struck a chord with a lot of people and he’s definitely a guy you want to keep your eye on. He’s going to be dangerous in a few years because he’s getting so popular and people are really taken with his books. I’ve talked to Don recently about ideas about his future books he’s going to write and he is just going to turn things upside-down. He is going to have the power to do it because he’s really doing well, he’s sold a lot of books, and the Christian bookstores are going to have to carry them. I appreciate people who are willing to risk platforms they’re on in order to say things that might get them knocked off and he’s certainly going to do that. And he’s going to be doing a lot of that over the next few years.” [http://www.challies.com/archives/001457.php]
Don Miller is indeed dangerous, but not in the sense that Webb means. Don Miller is not a Christian. Here’s why:DON MILLER IS A MYSTIC
“I don’t think you can explain how Christian faith works either. It is a mystery.” (p. 57)
“. . . I wasn’t experiencing Christianity. It didn’t do anything for me at all. It felt like math, like a system of rights and wrongs and political beliefs, but it wasn’t mysterious.” (p. 115-116)
“I only say this to illustrate that we, as Christians, believe things we cannot explain. And so does everybody else.” (p. 202)
“I think Laura was looking for something rational, because she believed that all things that were true were rational. But that isn’t the case. Love, for example is a true emotion, but it is not rational. What I mean is, people actually feel it. I have been in love, plenty of people have been in love, yet love cannot be proved scientifically. . . There are plenty of things that are true that don’t make sense.” (p54)
“Christianity . . . isn’t a religious system, it is people following Christ . .” (p118)DON MILLER DENIES TOTAL DEPRAVITY
“I have always agreed with the idea that we have a sin nature. I don’t think it looks exactly like the fundamentalists say it does, because I know so many people who do great things, but I do buy the idea that we are flawed …” (p17)
“I wondered whether any human being could be an enemy of God” (p216)DON MILLER LIKES ISLAM
“I don’t have so many problems with Muhammad, but I have problems with middle-aged white guys who grew up in America claiming Muhammad as a hero, not because Muhammad never did anything good (he did)…” (p 90)
All quotes from Miller’s Blue Like JazzDerek Webb considers heretic Don Miller to be a Christian leader.
That’s the problem here. Webb can’t see the difference between truth
and heresy. If he could, he wouldn’t consider Blue Like Jazz “a
tremendous book”.Here are some quotes from Derek Webb:
DEREK WEBB ADMITS HE IS AN UNBELIEVER
Webb: “well, as
i’ve said before, i think the church’s greatest problem is unbelief. we
must learn to believe the Gospel. we can’t do that until we understand
the Gospel. and we can’t do that until we’re hearing it. so i suppose
it starts with our pulpits. but our pews are a close second…”
[http://www.derekwebb.net/chat/20030617-DW-chat.txt]– Wow.
So Webb thinks he needs to “learn to believe the gospel”. I thought
Christ said “HE THAT BELIEVES NOT IS CONDEMNED.” (Mk 16:16). So Webb
admits he doesn’t believe the gospel?WEBB THINKS WESLEY WAS BRILLIANT
Webb: “[John
Wesley's] a brilliant man, and I like a lot of what Wesley has taught,
just with the exception of his
soteriology.”[http://www.blogspy.com/contend/interviewWebb.html]– So someone can be a “brilliant man” and believe a false gospel?? Webb says “yes”.
WEBB SAYS ROMANISTS ARE KINDGOM-BUILDERSWebb:
“There are a lot of people who feel in their heart that it’s right to
do right by the poor, to help people who are less fortunate and to help
make right injustices in our world. To me, THAT’S CALLED KINGDOM
BUILDING. That’s how you put your hands to it. That’s a huge point of
connection. The Episcopals, the Catholic Church, the Mennonites, the
Methodists—there are a lot of folks who have done a pretty fair job of
saying, “These are the priorities of Jesus. So if we’re going to
communicate to use who He is and what He’s about, then coming with that
is a heart for issues of justice.” That’s a huge point.”
[http://www.relevantmagazine.com/beta/issue_20_webb.php]– So Webb thinks Romanists are “kingdom building” ??
What
more would he have to say to expose himself as an unbeliever in
fellowship with Wesley, Miller and Romanists? And Webb also admits he
“must learn to believe the Gospel”.Well, Webb is certainly
right about that. He needs to have a change of mind and see Christ’s
Imputed Righteousness and Atoning Blood as THE ONE AND ONLY GOSPEL.
Comments (16)
Are you saying it’s wrong to be friends with an unbeliever?
I never saw those quotes by Don Miller before…that’s kind of alarming to me.
–Andrew
G’day Karen,
What’s wrong here is Webb’s idea of a Christian. He thinks that Miller can be both a Mystic and a Christian. In other words, Webb doesn’t consider Mysticism a false gospel.
Andrew
Of course, no direct quotes are given from Webb himself.
G’day Brian,
Here are some quotes from Derek Webb:
Webb: “well, as i’ve said before, i think the church’s greatest problem is unbelief. we must learn to believe the Gospel. we can’t do that until we understand the Gospel. and we can’t do that until we’re hearing it. so i suppose it starts with our pulpits. but our pews are a close second…” [http://www.derekwebb.net/chat/20030617-DW-chat.txt]
– Wow. So Webb thinks he needs to “learn to believe the gospel”. I thought Christ said “HE THAT BELIEVES NOT IS CONDEMNED.” (Mk 16:16). So Webb admits he doesn’t believe the gospel?
Webb: “[John Wesley's] a brilliant man, and I like a lot of what Wesley has taught, just with the exception of his soteriology.”[http://www.blogspy.com/contend/interviewWebb.html]
– So someone can be a “brilliant man” and believe a false gospel?? Webb says “yes”.
Webb: “There are a lot of people who feel in their heart that it’s right to do right by the poor, to help people who are less fortunate and to help make right injustices in our world. To me, THAT’S CALLED KINGDOM BUILDING. That’s how you put your hands to it. That’s a huge point of connection. The Episcopals, the Catholic Church, the Mennonites, the Methodists—there are a lot of folks who have done a pretty fair job of saying, “These are the priorities of Jesus. So if we’re going to communicate to use who He is and what He’s about, then coming with that is a heart for issues of justice.” That’s a huge point.” [http://www.relevantmagazine.com/beta/issue_20_webb.php]
– So Webb thinks Romanists are “kingdom building” ??
Brian, I’ll be interested to know what you think of Webb’s comments above.
What more would he have to say to expose himself as an unbeliever in fellowship with Wesley, Miller and Romanists? And Webb also admits he “must learn to believe the Gospel”.
Well, Webb is certainly right about that. He needs to have a change of mind and see Christ’s Imputed Righteousness and Atoning Blood as THE ONE AND ONLY GOSPEL.
Andrew
I have four points of contention with what you have said.
1) You stated: “Don Miller is indeed dangerous, but not in the sense that Webb means. Don Miller is not a Christian. Here’s why: DON MILLER IS A MYSTIC” and then you quoted him as saying, basically, that there is mystery in the Christian faith.
My response: Since when does Christianity explain everything? It says that God created the earth and heavens in the beginning, and that He did so by speaking it into existance, but it doesn’t say anything else beyond that. It doesn’t explain how He started weather patterns or star formations or how He made people of various skin colors. There is indeed mystery in the Christian faith, but the wstern mind likes to try to reconcile everything and fit it into a neat little box. I don’t think that we can do that and still be preaching the whole gospel.
2) You stated: So Webb thinks he needs to “learn to believe the gospel”. I thought Christ said “HE THAT BELIEVES NOT IS CONDEMNED.” (Mk 16:16). So Webb admits he doesn’t believe the gospel?
My response: You missed the point of his comment. He was saying that one of the big problems in the church is unbelief, even in the pulpit. All of us, even you, need to hear the BIBLE’S gospel on a daily basis otherwise we will forget what Jesus taught us to do. The gospel is NOT a matter of sitting on our haunches, condemning everyone who doesn’t believe quite like we do, and being lazy, white, American gluttons getting fat on McDonald’s and ourselves. The gospel is about making our calling and election sure by being obedient to the call of Christ. And He said, “Once you’ve gone from here, disciple all nations. Baptize them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and teach them to OBEY all of My commands.” The gospel is about obedience. But we can’t obey the gospel unless it is told us and it won’t be told us unless someone is saying it. In fact, isn’t that what Paul said in Romans? Does that mean that Paul was an unbeliever too?
3) You stated: So someone can be a “brilliant man” and believe a false gospel?? Webb says “yes”.
My response: Wesley knew what it meant to apply the teachings of Jesus to the actual daily lives of his followers. And he did so on their level. Frankly, this is brilliant if you ask me. In fact, that’s exactly what Jesus did. You don’t see Jesus spending all of His time refuting what He thought were heresies and telling people they were going to hell. He did that, but that wasn’t the entirety of what He did and taught.
4) You stated: Well, Webb is certainly right about that. He needs to have a change of mind and see Christ’s Imputed Righteousness and Atoning Blood as THE ONE AND ONLY GOSPEL.
My response: From what I can tell, Webb is being a much better Christian than you are. According to the Jesus who you CLAIM to represent and preach, a disciple will be known by his fruit. Derek Webb is on the streets and in the marketplace and in the church (just like Paul was) proclaiming that Christ died to redeem fallen humanity from their sins and show us a new way to live. No one is perfect, not even you. We all, I can almost guarantee, believe something that is not completely right Biblically, but that doesn’t make us all damned heretics. “Work out YOUR OWN salvation with fear and trembling” as Paul would say.
You must be kidding! There’s nothing in any of those quotes, whether from Webb or even Miller, that could be seen as a denial of historical Christianity. Your so-called “Christianity” doesn’t square with the Bible.
knowing derek and having read don millers book personally i can say that you took almost all of those quotes out of context. i wouldn’t go so far as to say that he or anyone else is a “better christian” than someone else, but Derek Webb’s LIFE is about the gospel, and there is no true christian who’s life is about anything else. not even theology.
with ALL of those quotes you aren’t really understanding what they are trying to say AT ALL.
every christian will always need the gospel EVERY DAY. what derek means there and has said repeatedly is that the gospel is not just something for unbelievers, but that christians need to be reminded of it all the time, because we do fail all the time.
if you are going to call miller a mystic, you are going to have to call presbyterians and baptists and almost everyone else the same. communion is a great example. the word “sacrament” means MYSTERY. so i guess anyone who believes in baptism and communion as means of grace is a mystic as well?
you have had some good things to say in the past but you seem to enjoy attacking christians. al ist of your past articles contains far too many attacking people and positions and not enough focus on the gospel and christian life, not to say anything about being factual or researching your “findings” before stating them so boldly.
sola christus ~@ hunter
one other thing – PLEASE be cautious of how you limit the church. the views you have espoused on other denominations or dispositions limit the saving work of Jesus Christ to people who look like your or see things like you do and that isn’t the model Jesus set out for HIS church.
Why should I refute what you write, when you will not refute what I wrote?
How did you find out about me?
Forgive me for being critical, but I think you’re way off in your “translations” of what these men have said. Have you heard Derek Webb’s music? it seems obvious to me that you haven’t, else you wouldn’t be so judgmental of him and his walk with God. Derek is a believer in Christ and his comments about unbelief did not reffer to himself at all. They reffered to the church as a whole not believing completely in the Bible. and i agree with him. I’m quite sure you are misunderstanding what these men have said, and if you call yourself a christian also, you should not be steering others away from men you have your doubts about, but rather assisting them in the ways of God and His Word.
what about mark 9:24? “Lord I believe, help my unbelief”
and then Jesus casted out the demon just as the father asked. the verse which was previous Jesus questions the father stating the clause “if you can”. Jesus then stated ,”All things are possible to him who believes.” so either Jesus is a liar or there is an extent to which we can have unbelief. do not be so quick to define words of others with your implied definitions. you are commiting the fallacy of equivocation. and when you are dealing with other people and making definite arguments about thier eternal status, you come close to judgment for yourself. and if mysteries make something “mystical” in the sense of mysticism, then i’m a mystic just as much as Paul and John are. Paul says that when a man speaks in tongues he speaks mysteries from his spirit to God. sounds a little mystical if you ask me. or when John says in 1 john 2:20, “But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.” sounds a little mystical there too. “special anointing” and “knowing truth” because of it? or the many references by Paul about the mystery of Christ.
I’m sure i and others here could make many arguments about how you are not a christian by twisting God’s word and your’s too. just be careful, you’re dealing with the Sheep of Jesus’ pasture. those for whom He shed His blood.
Hi. I really enjoyed reading Don Miller’s Blue like Jazz book. I didn’t agree with everything, but it’s a fun book to read. I would seriously recommend it, unless you think you would be brainwashed by the book’s ideas. I also enjoyed the out-of-contextiness of Don and Derek’s quotes.
please un subscribe to my page.
enough said….
i couldn’t believe what i read on this page….
i second chalskylr7…things like this post are the main reason i dislike calvinism. pontification about irrelevant shit like this is not the road to Dominion, or whatever you folks call it.
If your God exists, I sure doubt he smiles upon this self-important malevolence.
Have a nice day, but remember to let yourself be a human or a christian once or twice, rather than a mere calvinist.
hi! I saw that you subscribed to my site, so I just wanted to say hello since I don’t know you. hope you have a great day!