May 25, 2006
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Jeremy writes, “I also do not think that all of the Psalms are about Jesus.”My response: How do you know this? Where does the New Testament say any of the Psalms are about David’s own experience? Let’s assume for a moment that some of the Psalms are actually David’s experiences. How would we know which ones they are? It’s not obvious. Could you ever say you are *certain* about which Psalms are David’s experiences? Anyways, you’re simply not using the New Testament at all. You might as well be living 2100 years ago, before we had the Apostles. After all, you think they’re useless.
You won’t listen to a thing the Apostles have to say about the Psalms. I mean, aren’t you *privately* interpreting the Psalms? Aren’t you trying to make yourself into an Apostle? Isn’t it the Apostle’s job alone, to interprete prophecy?
Next up….Travis writes,
“Unless … the spirit of God possessed someone in a zombie-like fashion to hammer out the psalms with no other factors, that seems like the only way your theory holds up. “
My response: Yes, David was merely a secretary. That’s what the Apostle Peter says in Acts 1:15. “the Holy Spirit spoke before THROUGH DAVID’S MOUTH”. Also, God spoke “THROUGH THE MOUTH of Your servant David” (Acts 4:25), God was “saying in David” (Heb 4:7), “David IN SPIRIT [calls]” (Mt 22:43), “David himself said BY THE HOLY SPIRIT” (Mk 13:36).
I wouldn’t call David a “zombie”. But he was merely a mouth-piece of God.
Comments (9)
Repent and believe ye in the Gospel of Jesus Christ (Eph. 2:1-8)! By your false accusations of me, slanderous accusations of not only Presbyterians but all sects (even those few that are truly Christian), twisting and excluding my words and other Christians’ words, you are nothing more than a wolf in sheeps clothing. Come ye into the Light of Christ and follow Him for Christ does not delight in anyone perishing (Ezek. 18) and will give eternal life to those that believe on Him in His Gospel (prophesied in Exodus, THE PSALMS, the OT Prophets, and the rest of the OT). I’ve nothing more to say to you than I do hope to see you in Heaven. Until you repent, expect no further replies from me and my continued warning to the Church about you.
“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.” Matt. 23:15
“Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.” Luke 6:26
“But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. ” 1.Cor.5:11
“Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. ” 1. Cor. 6:9-10
“Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” – John 8:43
“As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.” Eph. 2:1-8
“”But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. 22 None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him. Because of the righteous things he has done, he will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?
24 “But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.
25 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Hear, O house of Israel: Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust? 26 If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin, he will die for it; because of the sin he has committed he will die. 27 But if a wicked man turns away from the wickedness he has committed and does what is just and right, he will save his life. 28 Because he considers all the offenses he has committed and turns away from them, he will surely live; he will not die. 29 Yet the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Are my ways unjust, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are unjust?
30 “Therefore, O house of Israel, I will judge you, each one according to his ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, O house of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!” Ezek. 18:21-32
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.” John 3:16
Hang on. I do believe that all Scripture is of course God-breathed; however, I don’t think Scripture was simply dictated while the writers simply sat and wrote. God used many individuals with their own individual motivations for writing what they did. Each Biblical writer also had his own writing style. David wrote what was on his heart. Maybe God allowed him to see a vision of Christ and his suffering, but it is also possible that David really had a similar experience which he wrote about and God used as a sort of prophetic tribute to Jesus. Being a Calvinist, you should have no problem with the idea that God orchestrates our lives and circumstances. God was behind the very events and situations that prompted the Biblical authors to write what they did. In that way, I believe that inspiration goes far beyond the mere dictation of words. The Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John wrote their Gospels because the events that they portray actually happened. Paul wrote his Epistles because God revealed that knowlege to him. All the authors wrote the truth as God revealed it to them without error. All truth is God’s truth. All Scripture is in the Bible because God, in His sovereignty, ordained it to be. What we read is what God wants us to hear, so it really is His word, but the Bible was still written by men, men inspired by the Holy Spirit with infallible truth, but individual men nonetheless.
How do you know this?
I say this based on the fact that the New Testament doesn’t point out all 150 Psalms as referencing Jesus. It only points out a select number of them. When the NT says that David prophesied, it immediately quotes what the prophecy was. I would think that if all of the Psalms were directly related to Jesus and His statements that the NT would make this blatantly clear.
Let’s assume for a moment that some of the Psalms are actually David’s experiences. How would we know which ones they are? It’s not obvious. Could you ever say you are *certain* about which Psalms are David’s experiences?
Well, by process of elimination, we could figure out, based on the NT, which Psalms weren’t referring to Jesus, and go from there.
Anyways, you’re simply not using the New Testament at all. You might as well be living 2100 years ago, before we had the Apostles. After all, you think they’re useless.
I am indeed using the NT. I am using it to point out the fact that it does not make a case in any manner whatsoever that all 150 Psalms are direct references to Jesus. Show me in the NT Apostles where it clearly states, “Thou must only interpret all the Psalms in reference to Jesus Christ alone” and I will recant my position.
You won’t listen to a thing the Apostles have to say about the Psalms.
Again, I am listening to what the Apostles say about the Psalms to which they speak. The Apostles do not speak of all 150 Psalms as referencing Christ.
I mean, aren’t you *privately* interpreting the Psalms?
This is one of my disagreements that I have with you on this whole discussion. I do not think that that is what the verse in Peter is referring to. In context, what Peter is saying is that the prophetic word (aka the Old Testament) is more sure a source than his own experience of being present at the transfiguration. He is encourageing his listeners, and us today as his readers, to test people’s experiences against what the words of Scripture state.
And why are we to do this? Because “no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation.” And how do we know this? Because “no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.” I do not believe that this particular text of Scripture is speaking of how we interpret the Scriptures themselves. He is making a case for the reliability of Scripture over personal experience.
Aren’t you trying to make yourself into an Apostle?
Well, considering I am making every attempt to follow Jesus command of the great commission, and since this means that He has sent me out to do this, technically, I am an apostle, as are all followers and disciples of the Messiah Jesus. In fact, in the Greek, “The word apostle…is a common term for someone sent forth or sent out, as an emissary.” (Source: Theopedia.com)
Hmm, well if every psalm always speaks of Christ, then could you explain exactly what each of them mean and exactly what each psalm is saying about Christ? I think Harold Camping could do that… do you agree with Harold Camping?
I was struck by this passage:
“But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. ” 1.Cor.5:11
very interesting… interesting indeed.
Although I disagree with Puritanmindset’s assertion (that effectively only some of the 150 Psalms are pointing to Christ), he does well to challenge Mr. Bain.
(Not all truths in Scripture are explicit/”blatantly clear”. Where in Scripture does is explicitly say, “Jesus Christ is God.” or “True Christians are saved by Grace alone through faith alone.”? Not that I disagree with the diety of Christ, Sola Gratia, or Sola Fide.)
Psalms uses typology which takes a physical instance in a literally true account and experience that has a higher application and fulfillment. To deny the first part is to privately interpret the psalms. The psalms are not apocalyptic writings like revelation… you do not interpret all books of the Bible using the same hermeneutic that you do using apocalyptic scripture.
What about Psalm 51…just a thought.
hey, interesting post. –cvivian is right, loook at 51…. & thanks for subscribing!