May 25, 2006
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I challenge you NOT to be a Jew. Stop reading the Psalms like the Jews.
Maybe you apply more Psalms to Christ than they do. But essentially, you both say the Psalms are David’s. Something the Apostles never say.
For centuries Jews have read the Psalms. But almost all of them have died seeing only David in the Psalms. It’s sad isn’t it? As with all prophecy, the meaning of the passages MUST BE REVEALED. You can’t just open a passage of the Psalms and go, “oh that’s talking about David.” Anymore, than you can open up Isaiah 53 (the chapter about the Suffering Servant) and say, “oh that’s talking about the nation Israel”. Prophecy — by the Apostle Peter’s definition — cannot be privately interpreted. “No prophecy is of any private interpretation.”
We can learn something from Christ’s parables in the New Testament. The disciples simply couldn’t work out what Christ was on about in his parables. They were flabbergasted. ”And His disciples came to Him, saying, Explain to us the parable of the darnel of the field.” (Mt 13:36). The Lord had to sit ‘em down and explain the EXACT meaning of the parable of darnel of the field. It’s the same with prophecy. You’ve got to sit down with the Apostles and they’ll tell you the meaning. Otherwise, you’ll be in the dark just like the disciples were before Christ interpreted the prophecy.
Sadly, most Presbyterians and Reformed Baptists privately interprete the Psalms. By that, I mean they interprete the Psalms according to their own fancies. This is incredible. Are they wiser than God? I’m not kidding. This is a question all you doubting Calvinists out there should consider. God says over and over again that the Psalms are about Christ. And He also says David was merely “a prophet” and that “the Holy Spirit spoke before THROUGH DAVID’S MOUTH” (Acts 1:15) and that “David himself said BY THE HOLY SPIRIT” (Mk 12:36). Yet, you doubting Calvinists think your interpretation of the Psalms is better than God’s. You apply them to David. Something God never does, and he continually warns us that it was the “Holy spirit speaking by the mouth of David.”
David was merely God’s secretary. As Peter says, “…the patriarch David … BEING A PROPHET, … spoke about the resurrection of the Christ.” (Acts 2:29-31). And what do prophets write about? Do they write about their own personal experiences? No. Peter says, the prophets were “testifying beforehand of the sufferings belonging to Christ” (1 Pet 1:11).
Paul says, — “eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor has it entered the heart of man.” Indeed, God revealed the meaning of prophecy only to the Apostles, “But God revealed them TO US by His Spirit” (1 Cor 2:10).
Two facts need to be understood:
1) David was a prophet.
and
2) Prophets do not write about their own experiences.
Christians listen to the Apostles! Only they know the meaning of prophecy! They alone can reveal to you the meaning of the Psalms! These Divine Ambassadors say, “We are of God; the one knowing God hears us. Whoever is not of God does not hear us. FROM THIS WE KNOW THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH AND THE SPIRIT OF ERROR.”
Don’t be like the authors of the Westminster Confession, who twisted many of the Psalms. Boy, they tried desperately to find a Biblical example of a believer doubting their salvation.
For example, see Chapter 18 Part III of the Confession. Here the “Divines” wrote that, “… infallible assurance does not so belong to the essence of faith, but that a true believer may wait long, and conflict with many difficulties, before he be partaker of it.”
If you check the footnote on this page of the Confession you’ll see that as “proof texts” Psalm 88 and 77 are used. In other words, the Westminster “Divines” thought that in Psalm 88 Heman is doubting his salvation and in Psalm 77 Asaph is doubting his salvation. They thought this proved believers could doubt their salvation.
But weren’t Heman and Asaph prophets? And do prophets speak of their own experiences? Peter says, the prophets were “testifying beforehand of the sufferings belonging to CHRIST,” (1 Peter 1:12). Hmmm….
In fact, Psalm 88 contains the lament: “why do You hide Your face from me?”. This lament is commonly used by Christ throughout the Psalms. Psalm 69, for example, contains this lament. And the New Testament says that Psalm 69 is about Christ. Paul in Romans 15:3 applies Psalm 69 to Christ. And Christ applies this Psalm to himself in John 2:17, John 15:25, John 19:29 etc etc.
So, you should realise that Christ himself claimed the prophecy was speaking about Himself. But you say the Psalms are about David. You are not better than a blaspheming Jew, Whit! Maybe you apply less of the Psalms to David than they do. But, at the end of the day, you are not looking at what the Apostles have to say. You are privately interpreting the Psalms according to your own fancies. But Peter said that, “NO PROPHECY OF SCRIPTURE IS OF ANY PRIVATE INTERPRETATION.” Look to the New Testament, and find that the Psalms speak of Christ, and the Church. Not David, who was a prophet.
Hey… and remember that there is NOT a single New Testament passage saying the Psalms are about David.
OBJECTION: WHAT ABOUT PSALM 51
God says that Psalm 51 is about Christ. Read Hebrews 10:5-6.
“5 For this reason, coming into the world, He [Jesus Christ] says, “Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but You prepared a body for Me. 6 You did not delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices concerning sins.
“Here we see that it is JESUS CHRIST who says: “YOU DO NOT DELIGHT IN BURNT OFFERINGS”.
These are the words of the God-man Jesus Christ. Will you steal the words of His mouth and give them to David?
Because in Psalm 51 these EXACT words are found!! Read verse 16. “For you do not desire sacrifice, or I would give it; You do not delight in burnt offering.”
Clearly, it is Christ who says “YOU DO NOT DELIGHT IN BURNT OFFERING”. Psalm 51 are the words of Jesus Christ to His Father. It is was Christ “says”, according to Hebrews 10:6.
Regarding this Psalm, Jeremy wrote me, === “I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me. (Psalm 51:1-5) …. Do enlighten me as to how this applies to our Savior who “in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin”===
In response: Jeremy, do you really believe the sins of the elect were imputed to Christ on the cross? The New Testament says, “HE WAS MADE A CURSE” and “He who knew no sin WAS MADE SIN FOR US”. Yes, Christ was a lamb without blemish. He was perfect. He never sinned. He was never stained within.
But when the sins of the elect were imputed, Christ TOOK THE DEBT upon himself. Let me explain. Suppose you owe your parents $50. Kindly, a friend of yours takes the debt from you, so that your friend is now in debt to your parents for $50. Of course, your friend never accumulated the debt himself.
In the same way, Christ never sinned. But He did take the debt/sins of the elect to be his own. In other words, He “owned” their sins, so to speak, whilst on the cross. Thus, he can refer to them as “my iniquities” because the sins were in His account.
A FINAL CHALLENGE
I challenge you NOT to be a Jew. Stop reading the Psalms like the Jews. Maybe you apply more Psalms to Christ than they do. But essentially, you both say the Psalms are David’s. Something the Apostles never say.
Comments (8)
Prophets do not write about their own experiences.
I beg to differ. When Jeremiah wrote the book of Lamentations, he was writing about his experience in response to God’s judgment of His people.
I also do not think that all of the Psalms are about Jesus. Is it not a greater depth of meaning, and probably more in line with how God works, for them to be the prophets own experience prophecying the coming Messiah?
God uses our experience to teach us lessons about how He works. A great example is the Exodus. God actually literally did lead His people out of captivity to the Egyptians, but it is also prophetic of how He is going to deal with His people in the future. If they will call on His Name in the midst of their bondage, He will deliver them. He did that through the entire Old Testament, and He continues to do so through His Son Jesus. Their experience was prophetic.
I believe the same to be true of the Psalms. The Psalms were written out of real life experience, but their experience was prophetic about Jesus’ words and deeds.
I challenge you NOT to be a Jew. Stop reading the Psalms like the Jews.
This is very dangerous of you to say. Paul tells us, in reference to Jewish/Gentile relations,
But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. (Romans 11:17-18 ESV)
nice to meet you~
You have a really cool site! ttyl -=God bless=-
There is no way i’m going to spend time to refute your posts if you don’t care enough about anyone else to refute their posts.
BTW, I’m unsubscribing. I don’t have time for this. If you truly wish to debate this rather than pound people with silly hasty-generalizations and racist/unloving comments, then contact me on my blog. I’d be more than happy to.
Unless Christ walked the earth and wrote them himself, or the spirit of God possessed someone in a zombie-like fashion to hammer out the psalms with no other factors, that seems like the only way your theory holds up. Plus if you were concerned with actually trying to change people’s minds towards “the truth,” why do you go into the place with guns blazing everytime you post something? You’re not going to get anywhere going about it like that; nobody is going to want to believe something posted by an arrogant narrow-minded tittle who talks down to everyone. Whit!
Clearly the Psalms don’t only apply to David! Otherwise why should it be added to the Bible? They are obviously there for our worship unto God! They are to instruct and illistrate us how to sing, pray, repent, and honour with our heart, soul and mind, giving glory to our Christ!
Your first paragraph scared me.
I say again, that we conservative Presbyterians believe that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is in the Psalms and therefore that the Psalms are about Jesus Christ. Indeed, I don’t want to believe something posted by an “arrogant narrow-minded tittle who talks down to everyone”!
Mr. Bain writes, “So, you should realise that Christ himself claimed the prophecy was speaking about Himself. But you say the Psalms are about David. You are not better than a blaspheming Jew, Whit! “
How misrepresenting of what I said! I said and say again, “Presbyterians recognize the Christ is in the Psalms and that the Psalms point to Christ and His Gospel. That is one reason why we sing the Psalms and categorise some of them as Messianic….” Therefore, by the Psalms being Messianic and containing the Gospel of Christ, we Presbyterians believe that they are about Christ.
In the WCF does not uphold the lie of doubting one’s salvation unless the reader of it takes it out of context for the WCF also says, ” They whom God hath accepted in his Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace; but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.
II. This perseverance of the saints depends, not upon their own free-will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father; upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ; the abiding of the Spirit and of the seed of God within them; and the nature of the covenant of grace; from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof”
The Westminster Large Catechism also says, “yet they are never left without such a presence and support of the Spirit of God as keeps them from sinking into utter despair.“ AND “Such as truly believe in Christ, and endeavour to walk in all good conscience before him, may, without extraordinary revelation, by faith grounded upon the truth of God’s promises, and by the Spirit enabling them to discern in themselves those graces to which the promises of life are made, and bearing witness with their spirits that they are the children of God, be infallibly assured that they are in the estate of grace, and shall persevere therein unto salvation”
Consider the whole picture before drawing your false conclusions about us Presbyterians!
Indeed, I am just as much a sinner as a blaspheming Jew, and from Paul, I know that I am the chief of sinners. Yet I am a sinner saved by Grace through Faith (Eph. 2:8) and NOT doubting because of God’s Promises in Rom. 8, John 3:16, and other wonderous passages!
“nobody is going to want to believe something posted by an arrogant narrow-minded tittle who talks down to everyone. “ Indeed so! Such is Mr. Bain. Travis!