Me: So we AGREE that if a believer could doubt their salvation, they would be calling God a liar. Now 1 John 5:10 says “the one not believing God” calls Him a liar. Thus, those who call God a liar are “not believing God”. In other words, those who doubt their salvation, and call God a liar, are NOT believers!

1) Doubting your salvation is calling God a liar
2) Those who call God a liar are not believing God, i.e. not believers
3) Therefore believers cannot call God a liar, i.e. doubt their salvation

===Joe says: “The fact that such doubting thoughts enter one’s mind does not prove that the doubter is not saved; only that he is still a sinner. As Spurgeon said, “God will accept a faith which is mingled with doubts, and even a trembling hand can receive a golden gift.”===

Me: Even the faith of the mustard seed can move mountains (is without doubt) !!

Also, James 1:6-7 says that those who “pray” wavering can expect nothing
from God. Now, someone doubting their salvation is wavering.
Therefore, they can expect nothing from God.

“But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask from God, who gives to
all freely and with no reproach, and it will be given to him. But let
him ask in faith, doubting nothing. For the one who doubts is like a
wave of the sea, being driven by wind and being tossed; for do not let
that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a
double-minded man, not dependable in all his ways.” (Jam 1:5-8)

2 Corinthians 13:5 says that people who are not sure whether or not
Christ is in them are unregenerate. Someone doubting their salvation
obviously cannot perceive Christ in them.

“Or do you not yourselves perceive that Jesus Christ is in you, unless
you are disapproved?” (2 Cor 13:5)

Paul addressed his letter to the Ephesians with “to the saints and
faithful at Ephesus”. Paul assumed that the Ephesians knew they were
saints and faithful (otherwise, they would not have known the epistle
was for them). Someone doubting their salvation do not have the
assurance of salvation of the Ephesians .

“Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, to the
saints being in Ephesus and faithful in Christ Jesus.” (Eph 1:1)

===Joe says: He will even accept a faith which is so weak it can only cry out, “Lord I believe; help, Thou, my unbelief.” ===

Me: It’s crucial to look at WHEN the centurion said “help my unbelief”. This was BEFORE the Resurrection. And before the Resurrection, NOBODY — including John the Baptist and Thomas — could be certain that Jesus was the Christ. They all had doubts and uncertainties about his messiahship. Nobody could be certain that Jesus was the Christ until the Resurrection. Why? Because Christ said the Resurrection was the ONE SIGN He would give to prove His Sonship. So the only way the centurions unbelief could be curied was by the Resurrection, which would have proved to Him that Jesus was the Christ. Indeed as Peter says in Acts, the Resurrection was God’s declaration to all men that Jesus is the Christ.

Therefore, BEFORE the Resurrection NOBODY could be sure that Jesus was the Christ. However, after the Resurrection and Pentecost, the Holy Spirit declared Jesus to be the Christ. Therefore, anyone today who denies Jesus’ messiahship is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Unless they repent (have a change of mind) they will likewise perish.

===Joe says: Although Paul’s faith was doubtless strong as strong can be, we are not all apostle Pauls.===

See 2 Peter 1:1. All believers have EQUALLY PRECIOUS FAITH with the Apostles. Now, if the Apostles had full assurance, in order for your faith to be “equally precious”, you would have to have full assurance too. For example, if the Apostle Paul has assurance but you don’t, then you’re faith is not equally precious to Paul’s.

1) Believers have equally precious faith with the Apostles
2) The Apostles never doubted their salvaiton
3) Therefore, believers cannot doubt either since their faith is equally precious

Hope that helps!

Oh hope you don’t mind me pasting an article on the Psalms too!

WHAT ABOUT THE PSALMS? Didn’t David doubt his salvation in the Psalms?

All sects — from Roman Catholics to Presbyterians — assume that the
Psalms are David’s/Heman’s/Asaph’s private experiences.

But where does the Scripture say this??

Nowhere.

The Apostles never say that the Psalms describe David’s private
experiences. In fact, the Apostles apply and identify about 1/3 of the
Psalms as speaking of Christ. The other 2/3rds are essentially the
same in content, and must also be Messianic.

Yet, every Sunday “Pastors” around the world PRIVATELY interpret the
Psalms . By “private interpretation” I mean the practice of taking
passages from the Psalms and interpreting them as ya-feel-like-it.

For instance, it is often assumed that Psalm 69 is descriptive of
David’s own experience. People think that these verses describe David
doubting his salvation….

Psalm 69:17,20,21: “And do not hide Your face from Your servant; for
it is distressing to Me; answer Me quickly. draw near My soul; redeem
it; ransom Me because of My enemies. Reproach has broken My heart, and
I am faint; and I waited for one to show pity, but there was none; and
for comforters, but I found none. They also gave Me gall in My food;
and in My thirst they gave Me vinegar to drink.”

Now, there’s a problem with saying this is David’s own experience. A
big problem.

It’s actually Christ speaking in this Psalm! Not David. In John 19:29,
the Holy Spirit records the fact that Christ was offered vinegar to
drink.

“Then a vessel full of vinegar was set, and having filled a sponge
with vinegar, and putting hyssop around, they brought it to His
mouth.”

The Apostles never say that the Psalms are descriptive of David’s
private experiences. They limit David to the role of a mere secretary
and prophet concerning Christ. “David being a prophet says…”, “David
in the Spirit says…”, “God says in David…”, “Christ says in
David…”, “The Holy Spirit spoke by the mouth of David…”.

I challenge you to show me one — just one! — time in the New
Testament when the Psalms are interpreted as being David’s private
experiences.

The Bible NOWHERE says that the Psalms refer to the experience of
David, Asaph, Heman etc. The Apostles say, “David being a prophet
says,” “David in Spirit says,” “God says in David,” “Christ says in
David,” “The Holy Spirit says by the mouth of David.” etc. But the
Apostles NEVER say that the Psalms refer to David’s experience. David
was merely a prophet/mouthpiece/secretary for God.

Over and over again the Psalms are applied to CHRIST in the New
Testament. Let’s take a look at Psalm 6. Heaps of “preachers” would
use this Psalm to “prove” that a believer can doubt their salvation.
For instance, the words of Psalm 6:1 are ” O Jehovah, do not rebuke me
in Your anger; nor chasten me in the heat of Your fury.” If this was
the experience of David, this would definitely prove that David lost
assurance of his justification. But this is NOT David’s experience.
It’s Christ on the cross. This Psalm is applied to Christ in Luke
13:27. “And He will say, I tell you I do not know you, from where you
are. “Stand back from Me all workers of unrighteousness!” Psa. 6:8″ –
Because the whole of Psalm 6 is in one voice, if Christ is speaking in
verse 8, he must be speaking in verse 1, too.

In fact, ALL those passages in the Psalms which people try to use to
prove that believers can doubt their salvation are referring to Christ
on the cross. Read Hebrews 5:7. Christ “in the days of His flesh was
offering both petitions and entreaties to Him being able to save Him
from death, with strong crying and tears, and being heard from His
godly fear.” Crying? Tears? Petitions? This was Christ being made a
curse on the cross for the Elect. He cried, “My God, My God, why have
you forsaken me?” because he WAS made a curse. But believers are NEVER
forsaken, because He was forsaken in their place on Calvary.

The Psalms are prophetic. We can only know their meaning by the
infallible interpretations of the Apostles and Christ. And guess what?
They speak only about Christ. Peter says, the prophets were “
testifying beforehand of the sufferings belonging to CHRIST,” (1 Peter
1:12).

Indeed, “the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy” (Rev
19:10). The Psalms are not the testimony of David!!

I challenge you NOT to be a Jew. Stop reading the Psalms like the Jews.

Maybe you apply more Psalms to Christ than they do. But essentially,
you both say the Psalms are David’s. Something the Apostles never say.

For centuries Jews have read the Psalms. But almost all of them have
died seeing only David in the Psalms. It’s sad isn’t it? As with all
prophecy, the meaning of the passages MUST BE REVEALED. You can’t just
open a passage of the Psalms and go, “oh that’s talking about David.”
Anymore, than you can open up Isaiah 53 (the chapter about the
Suffering Servant) and say, “oh that’s talking about the nation
Israel”. Prophecy — by the Apostle Peter’s definition — cannot be
privately interpreted. “No prophecy is of any private interpretation.”

We can learn something from Christ’s parables in the New Testament.
The disciples simply couldn’t work out what Christ was on about in his
parables. They were flabbergasted. “And His disciples came to Him,
saying, Explain to us the parable of the darnel of the field.” (Mt
13:36). The Lord had to sit ‘em down and explain the EXACT meaning of
the parable of darnel of the field. It’s the same with prophecy.
You’ve got to sit down with the Apostles and they’ll tell you the
meaning. Otherwise, you’ll be in the dark just like the disciples were
before Christ interpreted the prophecy.

Sadly, most Presbyterians and Reformed Baptists privately interprete
the Psalms. By that, I mean they interprete the Psalms according to
their own fancies. This is incredible. Are they wiser than God? I’m
not kidding. This is a question all you doubting Calvinists out there
should consider. God says over and over again that the Psalms are
about Christ. And He also says David was merely “a prophet” and that
“the Holy Spirit spoke before THROUGH DAVID’S MOUTH” (Acts 1:15) and
that “David himself said BY THE HOLY SPIRIT” (Mk 12:36). Yet, you
doubting Calvinists think your interpretation of the Psalms is better
than God’s. You apply them to David. Something God never does, and he
continually warns us that it was the “Holy spirit speaking by the
mouth of David.”

David was merely God’s secretary. As Peter says, “…the patriarch
David … BEING A PROPHET, … spoke about the resurrection of the
Christ.” (Acts 2:29-31). And what do prophets write about? Do they
write about their own personal experiences? No. Peter says, the
prophets were “testifying beforehand of the sufferings belonging to
Christ” (1 Pet 1:11).

Paul says, — “eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor has it entered the
heart of man.” Indeed, God revealed the meaning of prophecy only to
the Apostles, “But God revealed them TO US by His Spirit” (1 Cor
2:10).

Two facts need to be understood:

1) David was a prophet.

and

2) Prophets do not write about their own experiences.

Christians listen to the Apostles! Only they know the meaning of
prophecy! They alone can reveal to you the meaning of the Psalms!
These Divine Ambassadors say, “We are of God; the one knowing God
hears us. Whoever is not of God does not hear us. FROM THIS WE KNOW
THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH AND THE SPIRIT OF ERROR.”

Don’t be like the authors of the Westminster Confession, who twisted
many of the Psalms. Boy, they tried desperately to find a Biblical
example of a believer doubting their salvation.

For example, see Chapter 18 Part III of the Confession. Here the
“Divines” wrote that, “… infallible assurance does not so belong to
the essence of faith, but that a true believer may wait long, and
conflict with many difficulties, before he be partaker of it.”

If you check the footnote on this page of the Confession you’ll see
that as “proof texts” Psalm 88 and 77 are used. In other words, the
Westminster “Divines” thought that in Psalm 88 Heman is doubting his
salvation and in Psalm 77 Asaph is doubting his salvation. They
thought this proved believers could doubt their salvation.

But weren’t Heman and Asaph prophets? And do prophets speak of their
own experiences? Peter says, the prophets were “testifying beforehand
of the sufferings belonging to CHRIST,” (1 Peter 1:12). Hmmm….

In fact, Psalm 88 contains the lament: “why do You hide Your face from
me?”. This lament is commonly used by Christ throughout the Psalms.
Psalm 69, for example, contains this lament. And the New Testament
says that Psalm 69 is about Christ. Paul in Romans 15:3 applies Psalm
69 to Christ. And Christ applies this Psalm to himself in John 2:17,
John 15:25, John 19:29 etc etc.

So, you should realise that Christ himself claimed the prophecy was
speaking about Himself. But you say the Psalms are about David. You
are not better than a blaspheming Jew, Whit! Maybe you apply less of
the Psalms to David than they do. But, at the end of the day, you are
not looking at what the Apostles have to say. You are privately
interpreting the Psalms according to your own fancies. But Peter said
that, “NO PROPHECY OF SCRIPTURE IS OF ANY PRIVATE INTERPRETATION.”
Look to the New Testament, and find that the Psalms speak of Christ,
and the Church. Not David, who was a prophet.

Hey… and remember that there is NOT a single New Testament passage
saying the Psalms are about David.

OBJECTION: WHAT ABOUT PSALM 51

God says that Psalm 51 is about Christ. Read Hebrews 10:5-6.

“5 For this reason, coming into the world, He [Jesus Christ] says,
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but You prepared a body
for Me. 6 You did not delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
concerning sins.

“Here we see that it is JESUS CHRIST who says: “YOU DO NOT DELIGHT IN
BURNT OFFERINGS”.

These are the words of the God-man Jesus Christ. Will you steal the
words of His mouth and give them to David?

Because in Psalm 51 these EXACT words are found!! Read verse 16. “For
you do not desire sacrifice, or I would give it; You do not delight in
burnt offering.”

Clearly, it is Christ who says “YOU DO NOT DELIGHT IN BURNT OFFERING”.
Psalm 51 are the words of Jesus Christ to His Father. It is was Christ
“says”, according to Hebrews 10:6.

Regarding this Psalm, Jeremy wrote me, === “I was brought forth in
iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me. (Psalm 51:1-5) …. Do
enlighten me as to how this applies to our Savior who “in every
respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin”===

In response: Jeremy, do you really believe the sins of the elect were
imputed to Christ on the cross? The New Testament says, “HE WAS MADE A
CURSE” and “He who knew no sin WAS MADE SIN FOR US”. Yes, Christ was a
lamb without blemish. He was perfect. He never sinned. He was never
stained within.

But when the sins of the elect were imputed, Christ TOOK THE DEBT upon
himself. Let me explain. Suppose you owe your parents $50. Kindly, a
friend of yours takes the debt from you, so that your friend is now in
debt to your parents for $50. Of course, your friend never accumulated
the debt himself.

In the same way, Christ never sinned. But He did take the debt/sins of
the elect to be his own. In other words, He “owned” their sins, so to
speak, whilst on the cross. Thus, he can refer to them as “my
iniquities” because the sins were in His account.

A FINAL CHALLENGE

I challenge you NOT to be a Jew. Stop reading the Psalms like the
Jews. Maybe you apply more Psalms to Christ than they do. But
essentially, you both say the Psalms are David’s. Something the
Apostles never say.

Here’s some objections from a few doubting Calvinists I had to answer.

Jeremy writes, “I also do not think that all of the Psalms are about Jesus.”

My response: How do you know this? Where does the New Testament say
any of the Psalms are about David’s own experience? Let’s assume for a
moment that some of the Psalms are actually David’s experiences. How
would we know which ones they are? It’s not obvious. Could you ever
say you are *certain* about which Psalms are David’s experiences?
Anyways, you’re simply not using the New Testament at all. You might
as well be living 2100 years ago, before we had the Apostles. After
all, you think they’re useless.

You won’t listen to a thing the Apostles have to say about the Psalms.
I mean, aren’t you *privately* interpreting the Psalms? Aren’t you
trying to make yourself into an Apostle? Isn’t it the Apostle’s job
alone, to interprete prophecy?

Next up….

Travis writes,

“Unless … the spirit of God possessed someone in a zombie-like
fashion to hammer out the psalms with no other factors, that seems
like the only way your theory holds up. “

My response: Yes, David was merely a secretary. That’s what the
Apostle Peter says in Acts 1:15. “the Holy Spirit spoke before THROUGH
DAVID’S MOUTH”. Also, God spoke “THROUGH THE MOUTH of Your servant
David” (Acts 4:25), God was “saying in David” (Heb 4:7), “David IN
SPIRIT [calls]” (Mt 22:43), “David himself said BY THE HOLY SPIRIT”
(Mk 13:36).

I wouldn’t call David a “zombie”. But he was merely a mouth-piece of God.

Christie asks, “What about Psalm 51?”

G’day Christie!

I’m going to paste two verses of Scripture. And you’re going to notice
something interesting…

Hebrews 10:5-6, “coming into the world, He [Jesus Christ] says,
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but You prepared a body
for Me. You did not delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
concerning sins.”

Psalm 51:16 “For you do not desire sacrifice, or I would give it; You
do not delight in burnt offering.”

That strange!! These verses are almost exactly the same! It this a
coincidence?? Why, of course not. The author to the Hebrews is making
something very clear — Psalm 51 is about Christ.

For a quick illustration — If someone 2000 years ago had asked the
author to the Hebrews, “Mr Apostle. Who was the famous person who
said, ” You did not delight in burnt offerings.”??” The author to the
Hebrews would have answered, “Jesus Christ…. Those are His Words”.

And since these words are found in Psalm 51, then Psalm 51 is about
Christ. Christ says, “You did not delight in burnt offering”. The
Psalmist says, “You do not delight in burnt offering.” Therefore,
Christ is the Psalmist!! By that I mean, Christ was speaking through
the mouth of David.

David was merely a secretary. That’s what the Apostle Peter says in
Acts 1:15. “the Holy Spirit spoke before THROUGH DAVID’S MOUTH”. Also,
God spoke “THROUGH THE MOUTH of Your servant David” (Acts 4:25), God
was “saying in David” (Heb 4:7), “David IN SPIRIT [calls]” (Mt 22:43),
“David himself said BY THE HOLY SPIRIT” (Mk 13:36).

OBJECTION: Was Christ a sinner?

Now, here’s comes the tricky bit. What about Psalm 51:3?? It says,
“For I know my transgressions; and my sin is ever before me.

Could Christ say, “I know MY transgressions”?? Maybe He’s not talking
about sin He himself committed but IMPUTED sin (the sins of His
people).

Hmmmm … Do you really believe the sins of the elect were imputed to
Christ on the cross? The New Testament says, “HE WAS MADE A CURSE” and
“He who knew no sin WAS MADE SIN FOR US”. Yes, Christ was a lamb
without blemish. He was perfect. He never sinned. He was never stained
within.

But when the sins of the elect were imputed, Christ TOOK THE DEBT upon
himself. Let me explain. Suppose you owe your parents $50. Kindly, a
friend of yours takes the debt from you, so that your friend is now in
debt to your parents for $50. Of course, your friend never accumulated
the debt himself.

In the same way, Christ never sinned. But He did take the debt/sins of
the elect to be his own. In other words, He “owned” their sins, so to
speak, whilst on the cross. Thus, he can refer to them as “my
iniquities” because the sins were in His account.