Mp3 Talks on Assurance of Salvation
Today, Reinhard and I discussed whether or not believers can doubt their salvation.
Questions were raised such as:
Why do most Calvinists doubt their salvation?
Did the Apostles doubt their salvation?
The entire discussion is about 9 MB
http://Godnoliar.com/One_Hour_Discussion_Assurance.mp3
Or you can listen to sections of the discussion, one at a time. Each of these mp3s are about 1 MB.
1) Doesn’t Hebrews 3:4-14 say that all believers ”HOLD FAST THE BOLDNESS and rejoicing of the hope firm to the end” and that they “hold the BEGINNING OF THE ASSURANCE FIRM TO THE END” ?
2) An analogy to consider – Suppose you had a friend who wasn’t sure he is a Republican. Isn’t he agnostic about the Republican Party? In the same way, if a man isn’t sure he is a believer, then he is agnostic about the gospel.
3) Can somebody standing in broad sunlight doubt they are in the light? 2 Corinthians 4:6 says the light of Christ shines into the believer’s heart. So a believer can never doubt his salvation, since you cannot be in the light and not know it.
4) Is it humble to say you are “too sinful for God”? Or isn’t it doubting the sufficiency of Christ’s work? If you say “I think I’m too sinful for God”, you are looking for something on top of the finished work of Christ for your confidence !!
Faith Is Belief
I) Was Paul wrong when he said in Colossions 2:2 that they should be COMFORTED because they UNDERSTOOD? Aren’t we to base the evidence our salvation on our belief of the truth?
II) See also John 1:12, where it says that to receive Christ is simply to believe. And faith is “abiding in the doctrine of Christ” (2 Jn 9), “knowing the truth”, “to KNOW God and Christ” (John 17). Faith in Christ is NOT more than believing the truths about his righteousness and propitiation.
III) Does God convert people without making them understand Christ’s righteousness? See Romans 10:3 – the Jews were ignorant of the righteousness of God and Paul judges them lost. In other words, they didn’t know that “Christ is the fulfilment of the Law”, and thus they were unbelievers.
The Psalms are not David’s Experiences
1) Wasn’t David only a secretary of God (See Acts 1:15, “the Holy Spirit SPOKE THROUGH THE MOUTH of David”). Moreover, don’t prophets speak about the FUTURE, and NOT their own experiences? “They testified beforehand concerning the sufferings of Christ” (1 Pet 1:11). And since Paul says ”eye has not seen … but God revealed it TO US”, the Apostles were the first people to understand the meaning of the prophecies.
2) Christ dwells in the believers heart “BY FAITH” (Eph 3:17). Are you looking for something in you more than belief? Believers must first perceive Christ in their mind, then they love him. Belief in the truth COMES BEFORE ALL desires and affections for Christ. For how can you desire and love a Christ you don’t already know?
Unbelievers Have No Knowledge
I) Isaiah 1:3 and Jeremiah 8:7 says that animals have more recognition of their environment, than the unregenerate do about God. Deep down, the unregenerate do NOT believe in the True God. They say in their hearts, “there is no God”, that is, they do not believe in the Just God and Savior.
2) The Galatians were “not knowing God” but after their conversion were “knowing God”. Can a man go from knowing nothing about God at one point in time – then when he realises who the True God is — can he doubt he has been converted? Surely, you could never doubt you have been converted, after having such a radical change of mind !
Doubters are Damned
If you cannot perceive Christ in your mind, you are not saved (2 Cor 13:5). After all, believers never thirst for everlasting life (John 4:14). Think about it. If a believer doubted their salvation, they would be thirsting for salvation. But Christ said believers NEVER thirst, so believers never doubt their salvation. Moreover, all believers have EQUALLY PRECIOUS FAITH WITH THE APOSTLES (2 Pet 1:1). Since the Apostles never doubted, neither will believers today. Anyone who doubts is “unstable in ALL his ways”, and “cannot expect anything from God” (Jam 1:6-8). If you doubt God’s promise you are calling God a liar (1 John 5:10).
Assurance is a Gift
In the gospels, the lawyer who came to Christ doubted his salvation because he trusted in his works. “The young man said to Him, All these things I have kept from my youth. WHAT DO I STILL LACK?” (Matthew 19:20).
Ask yourself. Am I looking to my works for confidence?
Do you believe in the True Gospel of Imputed Righteousness?
Comments (23)
Are the Psalms about David’s experiences?
Most Calvinists will agree with me that believers do NOT come under the wrath of God.
Thus, these Calvinists should also agree with me that David and Heman NEVER came under the wrath of God. So, you would hope that Presbyterians and Reformed Baptists would apply psalms which say things like “your fury has lain hard upon me” (Psa 88) to Christ on the cross.
However, the Westminster confession says that this Psalm is about Heman’s own experiences. In other words, the WCF is saying that believer can come under God’s fury. They don’t believe the Bible which says, “there is NO CONDEMNATION for those in Christ Jesus.” After all, the Presbyterian says that Heman came under God’s fury, and thus God’s condemnation. So, these Calvinists are saying that there IS condemnation for those in Chirst!
I’m also concerned that most Calvinists apply Psalms 77, 89, 102 to David and other beleivers. Surely, anybody can see that the person in these Psalms is under God’s wrath.
“Because of Your anger and Your wrath; for You have lifted me and cast me down.” (Psalm 102:10) “O Jehovah, until when will You hide Yourself? Shall Your wrath burn like fire forever?” (Psalm 89:46).
Surely, David could not have experienced God’s “anger” and “wrath”. I always thought that believers do NOT experience God’s wrath! I assumed that most Calvinists would agree that God CANNOT show hatred, wrath, hostility, or enmity toward one who has been clothed with the righteousness of Christ.
Also, Psalm 102:25 is applied in Heb 1:10-11 to Christ, Psalm 89 is applied in Colossians 1:15, 18 to Christ. Psalm 77 contains the same words as Psalm 143, which is applied in the New Testament to Christ.
It is SHOCKING and INCREDIBLE that most Calvinists say that these Psalms are about David’s experiences (or Heman’s experiences etc)
“because of Your anger and Your wrath; for You have lifted me and cast me down.” (Psalm 102:10)
“Your fierce wrath goes over me; Your terrors have cut me off.” (Psalm 88:16)
“Your fury has lain hard upon me, and You afflict me with all Your waves.” (Psalm 88:7)
“O Jehovah, why do You cast off my soul; why do You hide Your face from me? … I SUFFER YOUR TERRORS” (Psalm 88:14-15)
“O Jehovah, until when will You hide Yourself? Shall Your wrath burn like fire forever?” (Psalm 89:46).
Most Calvinists say that these Psalms are about David’s/Heman’s own experiences. This is incredible !!
Whoever is speaking in these Psalms is under God’s fury. Thus, these Calvinists are saying that believers can come under God’s fury!! They don’t believe the Bible which says, “there is NO CONDEMNATION for those in Christ Jesus.” After all, the Presbyterian says that Heman came under God’s fury, and thus God’s condemnation. So, these Calvinists are saying that there IS condemnation for those in Chirst!
Are you people blind?
Can’t you see these Psalms are about Christ on the cross?
Psalm 102:25 is applied in Heb 1:10-11 to Christ, Psalm 89 is applied in Colossians 1:15, 18 to Christ. Psalm 77 contains the same words as Psalm 143, which is applied in the New Testament to Christ.
Andrew
Hmm… well I haven’t listen to those sound clips, so sorry about that. What do you mean by calvinists? I know I’ve heard that term before but right now its not coming to mind.. lol… I do believe in some parts of Psalms that David was talking about himself and maybe in other parts he was talking about Yahushua*Jesus*, and I do think there was a time when he had the wrath of Yahuah*God* because David did sin. But along with some other prophets … it really that no one is without sin no matter how righteous he or she may be. I believe that as followers of Yahuah*God* that things will not be easy for us. Yahushua never said that things would be easy… and at times I think that we will be tested to see how strong our roots in Yahushua are and whether or not they will hold… and during those rough times we may think that Yahuah has left us.. but yet He hasn’t. That’s probably not the condemnation that you are speaking about.. but just thought that I write what came to mind. and I do disagree agree with you saying that all you have to do is believe in “christ”. I think belief without works is worthless in a sense as the same as works without belief. For what I do believe in… I try to act on it and that is the works that are more than beliefs… anyhow there’s my two cents of thoughts. lol…
shalom *peace*
-elisheva-
hello there…Andrew. Nice mp3 things..umm..your really nice! and very smart, keep it up. bye FRIEND. yah too bad you can’t say that back to me. ohhh what what. yah, that’s right. beat it.
Hi Emmers and everyone,
Thought this might interest you…
Who are the Psalms about?
Psa 1: Contains the same words as Psalm 40, which is applied in the NT to Christ.
Psa 2: Applied to Christ in Acts 4:25 and Hebrews 1:5.
Psa 3: Verse 6 of this Psalm parallels (is very similar to) Psalm 27:3 (and Psalm 27:12 is applied to Christ in Matthew 26:60) Psa 4: Verse 2 parallels Proverbs 1:22 which is about Christ.
Psa 5: Compare verse 9 with Psalms 14 and 53, and see how these are applied in Romans 3:13
Psa 6: This Psalm is parallel (very similar to) Psalm 22 and 69. And Hebrews 5:7 clearly shows who is speaking in these Psalms, and all of the same expression. Also compare verse 8 of this Psalm (Psa 6) with Luke 13:27.
Psa 7: Parallel to Psalm 35
Psa 8: See Matt 11:25, Matt 12:15,16 and Heb 2:6
Psa 9: Compare verse 8 of this Psalm with Psalm 116:13 and Acts 27:31
Psa 10: This Psalm begins with words parallel (similar to) Psalm 22 and ends like it in the personal victory and eternal reign of the Messiah and his saints, and contrasted with the final and fearful overthrow of all the powers of anti-Christian darkness.
Psa 11: Compare verse 3 of this Psalm with Psalm 75:3 and then try to say that Christ is not the speaker.
Psa 12: The Psalm is to be understood the Psalm as the last.
Psa 13: The Messiah appealing to his Father with strong cry and tears (Heb 5:7). See also Psalm 89:14.
Psa 14: See Psalm 53, with Rom 3:10-12
Psa 15: In the Psalm we have the perfect character described with no man can answer to but the man Christ Jesus. See also Psalm 24
Psa 16: The New Testament declares this Psalm to be about Christ (Acts 2:25, Acts 13:35).
Psa 17: Verse 3 of this Psalm cannot be describing a sinner but must be spoken about Him that had no sin and no guile in his mouth. Also, the last verse points forth his glorious Resurrection.
Psa 18: Compare verse 43 of this Psalm with Psalm 2:8 to see who is described in this Psalm. Also, consider who verse 24, which must be about Christ.
Psa 19: This Psalm sets to us the everlasting Gospel and the glory of God shining in the person of Jesus Christ. Compare verse 2 with Romans 10:18.
Psa 20: This Psalm is spoken in the person of the church.
I just recieved an e-mail from Vinca. I’m afraid you misunderstood her. She was not going to ask her father about the theological question. She knew an e-mail corrospondence with a guy one-on-one that she does not know in real life was out of the question in the first place. Her Papa said “absolutely not.” She intentionally deleted your comment, but she did not intentionally block you. Xanga does weird things like that sometimes *shrugs*
~nso
Hi again Nella,
Thanks again for your response.
By the way, since we talked about the Psalms earlier, I thought the following might interest you.
Since “no prophecy is of any private interpretation”, here is how the New Testament interprets Psalms 22-150.
Tell me what you think =)
Psa 22: You can plainly see who is the the speaker in this Psalm by looking at Matt 27:37,43,46, Luke 23:35, Heb 2:10
Psa 23: This Psalm describes salvation by Jesus, and the Christian confidence in it.
Psa 24: Spoken of Christ the King of Glory. See Psa 47:5, Psa 58:18, Eph 4:8.
Psa 25: In this Psalm we have the Messiah addressing his Father, as being made of a woman under the Law, made sin, or accounted as the sinner. See Psalm 40:12.
Psa 26: Here the Messiah is pleading his own innocence and the justice of His cause. This Psalm parallels Psa 1:1 and Heb 7:26.
Psa 27: See Psalm 3.
Psa 28: Likewise, see Psalm 3.
Psa 29: See Psalm 2.
Psa 30: This Psalm is expressive of the agonies and death of Christ, as is clear from Psa 104:29 which is applied by the Lord, John 12:27, Matt 26:38 and Matt 27:46. Also, the 5th verse of this Psalm ought particularly to be remarked, as literally fulfilled in the death and resurrection of Christ, of which it is evidently prophecy.
Psa 31: That Christ is the speaker in this Psalm will appear if we consider the 5th verse as literally accomplished in his last words upon the cross, Luke 23:46. Also the 11th verse of the Psalm is fulfilled in Matt 26:56.
Psa 32: The first and second verses of this Psalm are applied by the Apostle (Rom 4:6). The third, fourth and fifth verses are parallel to Psa 38:2, Psa 39:2, Psa 40:12 and Psa 102:3-12. These verses express the experience and behavior of the Messiah Himself, bearing in patient suffering and pain, the sins of his people.
Psa 33: This Psalm is spoken by no particular person, being a song of praise to be sung by all believers.
Psa 34: That the Messiah is the principal subject of this Psalm is evident from the 20th verse which is applied in John 29:26 as being our passover answering to the figure (Exo 12:46, Num 9:12)
Psa 35: The Son of God is the speaker in this Psalm. See John 15:25.
Psa 36: In this Psalm, Christ describes the unbeliever. See Psalms 16, 57 and 107.
Psa 37: This Psalm is rather a Psalm of instruction rather of direct devotion or praise.
Psa 38: In this Psalm Christ confesses the elect’s sin to his by imputation. Verse 11 is applied to Christ in Luke 23:49. Consider also the parallels, Psalms 6:1, 40:12, 102:3, 110:3.
Psa 39: This seems to be a continuation of the last.
Psa 40: Applied to Christ in Heb 10:6. See also Heb 5:7.
Psa 41: The application of the 9th verse in John 13:8, proves the Messiah to be the speaker.
Psa 42: Compare the 3rd verse of this Psalm with Psa 12:8. Also, compare the 7th verse with Psalm 88:7 and then judge who is the speaker.
Psa 43: To be understood the same as the last.
Psa 44: This Psalm is applied in Roma 8:36 as descriptive of the suffering state of the saints of God in all ages of the world.
Psa 45: This is parallel to the son of Solomon and is applied in Heb 1:8 to be Christ.
Psa 46: This may be called teh saints triumph.
Psa 47: Compare the 5th verse with Luke 24:51
Psa 48: This seems to be only a second part of the last.
Psa 49: In Matt 13:35 the speaker here is revealed.
Psa 50: The speaker of this Psalm will be very clear to us if we compare the 10th verse with Psa 24:1,8. Also, compare the 13th verse with Psa 40:6 (which is applied to Christ in Hebrews 10:6)
Psa 51: Compare verse 16 to Psa 40:6, which is applied in Heb 10:6 to Christ.
Psa 52: Antichrist described under the figure of a mighty man, who is also called the man of sin.
Psa 53: Precisely the same as Psa 14
Psa 54: The Messiah pleading to his Father. See Heb 5:7.
Psa 55: Compare verse 13 with Psalm 41:9, which is explained in John 13:8.
Psa 56: This Psalm is parallel to Psalms 116 and 118.
Psa 57: Parallel to Psa 16
Psa 58: The power and malice of Christ’s enemies set forth as an assembled counsel.
Psa 59: A continuation of the last.
Psa 60: The same as Psalms 44 and 108, all of which are express the warfare, afflictions and sufferings appointed for the church of Christ in this world. Also, the universal glory and triumph of Christ is set forth.
Psa 61: Spoken by Christ (parrallel to Psa 2).
Psa 62: Same as Psalms 33, 34, 37.
Psa 63: The last verse tell us who the speaker is. “But the king shall rejoice in God; everyone who swears by Him shall glory” which parallels Deut 6:13, “You shall fear the Lord your God, and serve Him, and shall swear by His name”.
Psa 64: Similar to the last.
Psa 65: This Psalms is of the same spirit, meaning and expression as Isaiah 55:10ff. Compare also verse 4 of this Psalm with Jeremiah 30:21,22.
Psa 66: As the last.
Psa 67: Similar to the last two.
Psa 68: A song of triumph that is prophetic and descriptive of the resurrection and ascension of Christ. This is evident from the interpretation of verse 18 of this Psalm in Eph 4:8.
Psa 69: Verse 4 is applied to Christ in John 15:25. Also verse 8 is likewise applied to Christ in John 12:5. Verse 9 applied in John 2:17 and Rom 15:3. Verse 20,21 applied in Matt 26:56. Verse 22,23 is applied in Rom 11:9,10 to Christ.
Psa 70: The same as Psa 40, being only a repetition of the last five verses.
Psa 71: Verse 1 parallels Psa 31:2,3. Also, verse 6 parallels Psa 22:2,10. And verse 13 parallels Psa 35:4,26 and Psa 40:14.
Psa 72: The same as Psa 2.
Psa 73: Parallels Psalms 16, 17 and 35.
Psa 74: Similar to Psa 44.
Psa 75: That this is spoken by Jesus appears from verse 3. “The earth and all those living in it are melting away; I set firm its pillars.” Who dare say this but He that upholds all things by the word of his power?
Psa 76: Similar in subject and expression to Psalm 46 and 48.
Psa 77: The same as Psalms 88 and 143 and the Psalms that parallel them.
Psa 78: Historical and commemorative. Spoken in the person of Christ concerning those things that happened to the people of old, for examples to us.
Psa 79: A second part, in a way, of Psa 74. Similar to, and explained by Psa 44.
Psa 80: The Psalm is spoken by the church of Christ to the praise of her God, her Shepard, Husbandman, and King.
Psa 81: Full of praise and divine expostulations with the sons of men.
Psa 82: Descriptive of the Gory of the son of God, and giving instruction to rulers. See John 10:34 and Psa 2:10.
Psa 83: Of the same spirit as Psalms 2 and 35.
Psa 84: Exactly similar in all respects to Psa 63.
Psa 85: Descriptive and commemorative — according to the season at that time — of the past, present and future ways of the Lord God towards His people.
Psa 86: The speaker of this Psalm pleads his own holiness as the foundation of his claims to divine favor, verse 2. And who can this be but David’s Lord?
Psa 87: Descriptive of the glory of the Messiah’s kingdom, parallel in the beginning to Psa 48 and in the latter part it parallels the conclusion of Psa 22. Also, compare verse 2 with Psa 78:67.
Psa 88: Similar to Psalms 22 and 77.
Psa 89: See verse 27. This Psalm is precisely parallel to Psa 2. See also Colossions 1:15,18.
Psa 90: A song of Moses. The sense is obvious. See 2 Pet 3:8.
Psa 91: See Matt 4:6.
Psa 92: As Psa 2 with its parallels.
Psa 93: The glory of Christ.
Psa 94: As Psalm 10 with its parallels.
Psa 95: See Heb 3:7-11
Psa 96: A song of praise upon the reign of the Messiah.
Psa 97: See verse 7. Applied by the Father to the Son in Heb 1:6.
Psa 98: Interpreted as the last Psalm.
Psa 99: The praise and majesty of Christ’s Kingdom.
Psa 100: A Psalm of thanksgiving.
Psa 101: Christ’s undertaking and vow. See Psa 75.
Psa 102: Verse 25 is applied and interpreted in Heb 1:10,11
Psa 103: A song of praise for God’s great salvation.
Psa 104: The same as the last. See verse 4 applied in Heb 1:14.
Psa 105: The Lord’s way towards His people, as examples to us. 1 Cor 10:6, Rom 15:5.
Psa 106: See Luke 1:71
Psa 107: See Psa 33.
Psa 108: Verse 3 of this Psalm parallels Psa 18:49, which is explained by Rom 15:9.
Psa 109: See Acts 1:20 with Psalm 69:25.
Psa 110: See Matt 22:44 and Heb 6:20
Psa 111: Similar to Psalm 33
Psa 112: That Christ is the subject of this Psalm is without dispute. For proof, see 2 Cor 9:9.
Psa 113: Compare the last verse of this Psalm with Isaiah 54 which is explained in Galatians 4:27,28.
Psa 114: The redemption of Israel, with a pledge and token of the eternal redemption of the people of God.
Psa 115: Parallel to the song of praise sung by the angels, Luke 2:14.
Psa 116: Messiah is the speaker, see 2 Cor 4:13.
Psa 117: Explained in Rom 15:11 of all the kingdoms of the earth becoming the kingdom of the Lord. This shall be completely fulfilled at the second coming.
Psa 118: Verse 22 of this Psalm is applied in Matt 21:42 and Acts 4:11. Then judge who this Psalm ought to be applied to.
Psa 119: See Heb 5:7. And compare verses 115 and 139 with Matt 7:23 and John 2:17.
Psa 120: Parallel to Psa 118
Psa 121: Parallel to Psa 16 and 91.
Psalms 122 – 130: About Christ and his church. See their parallels.
Psa 131: See Philippians 2:5.
Psa 132: Messiah reigning on his father David’s throne, called the “Throne of Jehovah” (1 Chron 29:23 and 2 Chron 9:8). See Psa 2.
Psa 133: Brotherly love – see John 13:34.
Psalms 134 – 150: About Christ and his church. See their parallels.
Do you really think Christians can never doubt their salvation? I know several Christians (in my own family) who have doubted from time to time, but never for long. I think it is possible, sort of like when Peter took his eyes off Jesus and started sinking. I’m sure a Christian would from beginning to end have a main holding fast of the boldness. I’m not a Christian myself, I’m quite sure, because I’ve had years of doubting and of thinking I’m not saved, but my parents are strong Christians yet have had short times of doubting in their lives.
Do you really think Christians can never doubt their salvation? I know several Christians (in my own family) who have doubted from time to time, but never for long. I think it is possible, sort of like when Peter took his eyes off Jesus and started sinking. I’m sure a Christian would from beginning to end have a main holding fast of the boldness. I’m not a Christian myself, I’m quite sure, because I’ve had years of doubting and of thinking I’m not saved, but my parents are strong Christians yet have had short times of doubting in their lives.
Oops, sorry for the double posting.
ok, this is seriously my last reply to your non-sense. your last reply was so out of context i didn’t know where to start. but i really hope this will give you some true understanding.
Peter, an apostle, told “believers who have already obtained like precious faith by the righteousness of Jesus” that they should add virtue to faith, knowledge to virtue,” and so on. then in verse 10 he says, “brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abuindantly into the everlasting kingdom of our lord and saviour Jesus Christ.”
so do not say our actions are not a basis for assurance when Peter, an apostle, explicitly says that they are. in fact he assures us if we follow this method that we will recieve a rich welcome in to the kingdom.
that is all i have to say ever again to you. you greive my heart. i really do pray God would give you clear understanding of His word. seriously, some of the things you state are so far off that even heretics in the past didn’t go on to say such things. please be careful of what you say. some people are very young in their faith. i just hope you’re not held responsible for a shipwrecked faith on the day of judgment.
grace and peace
I saw that you had subscribed to my xanga, and so I thought that I would come check out yours. I really appreciate what you are doing, and I just skimmed some of the posts located on this page. I did want to question you on a few things, to see your response. 1.) You said on your Aug. 16th post that the unregenerate have no knowledge of God. I was curious about your thougths on Romans 1:18-28. This isnt the only passage I believe supports that the unregenerate know God, but it is the only one I can reference at this specific point in time. To me this passage clearly states that their is clear evidence and that it is seen by the wicked, the ungodly, or unregenerate.
I was also curious about your thoughts on doubting and how you define it. Now, let me first state that I believe we have NO BASIS to doubt, but I don’t believe that those who do have a period of doubt are unsaved. My first thoughts on this come to Thomas. He doubted that Jesus was really raised from the dead, and specifically said he would not believe it unless he put his hand in Christ’s side. (This is all coming from John 20) Now, we could say that Thomas, one of the twelve, was unsaved at this point in time for consistency with your viewpoint. Let’s look at other places and see if this holds. The first is in Christ’s prayer in the garden on the night of his betrayal (John 17). Here when Christ prays, he makes specific recognizes that none have been lost, except the one foretold about so that the scriptures might be fulfilled. (John 17: 12) Now, this doesn’t specifically say that Thomas had to be saved prior to his doubting, but it does assure us that Thomas was saved. Secondly, and more specifically to the point… Thomas partook of the first communion, which Christ, the head of the church, first administered. We know from scripture that those who don’t examine themselves prior to partaking of the Lord’s supper eat and drink judgement unto themselves. (1 Cor. 11:19) Now, if we eat and drink judgement unto ourselves when we eat and drink in an unworthy manner, would Thomas not have eaten and drank judgement unto himself as partaking of the Lord’s supper if he were at this point in time unsaved?? And if he were unsaved at this point in time, would Christ himself have let Thomas partake in the first place??
Now, this is something you didn’t mention, but I wanted to use it anyway. If anyone who doubts has no salvation, then what about Peter, or myself, or possibly you or someone you know, when at times we tend to cower in a corner when we could boldy profess the name of Christ?? Are we in fact unsaved when we don’t profess the name of Christ as we should?? I do not doubt Peter’s salvation, or my own, at any one moment. Yet, Peter denied Christ publicly 3 times, and I know there are times in my life where I could have spoken more than I did. It seems to me that if any person is unsaved because they have a season of doubt then in the same manner they would be unsaved if they did not boldy profess the name of Christ as they should at one given oppurtunity.
Again, I really appreciate what you are doing, and look forward, for my own edification as well as your own or anyone else who might read this, to hearing your response. I leave with Psalm 133: 1 How good and pleasant it is when brothers live together in unity! 2 It is like precious oil poured on the head, running down on Aaron’s beard, down upon the collar of his robes. 3 It is as if the dew of Hermon were falling on Mount Zion. For there the Lord bestows his blessing, even life evermore.
May God continue to bless and use you as His vessel as you use this site to His Glory!!
Alright, I read the whole post. No more skimming. It was good. I’ve never heard anybody contradict that the Psalms were not all David’s experiences..so that’s really interesting.
Christians really need to get down to the gritty logic of things.
I don’t have time to listen to sound clips right now but I’ll try and get around to it.
Oh, P.S.
I havn’t been taking Violin for very long..less than a year. My violin isn’t anything too great either. Just a student model. But, I love violin music…I would really like it if I could learn fiddle but unfortunatly there isn’t anybody to teach me.
An old violin (in good condition) would be splended to own…perhaps one day.
Hey Andrew, thanks for subscribing to me!
G’day Jeremiah!
Thank you for your comments and questions.
You wrote me ==== My first thoughts on this come to Thomas. He doubted that Jesus was really raised from the dead, and specifically said he would not believe it unless he put his hand in Christ’s side. (This is all coming from John 20) Now, we could say that Thomas, one of the twelve, was unsaved at this point in time for consistency with your viewpoint.====
My response:
Thomas was a saved man when he doubted the Resurrection of Christ. But he was a saved JEW. He was living BEFORE Pentecost. And before Pentecost NOBODY understood the Resurrection! This is why Christ said to Peter, “When you are CONVERTED, comfort the brethren.” And to his disciples he said, “I WILL SEND you the Comforter”.
Of course, the disciples had the Holy Spirit before Pentecost, but He had NOT yet comforted them about the Resurrection. He only gave them the understanding of this truth at Pentecost.
So, yes, the disciples had doubts about the Resurrection up until Pentecost. But since Pentecost, the fact of the Resurrection has become “THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION”. And the Gospel today is that “Christ was RAISED AGAIN according to the Scriptures.”
So no believer today could have any doubts about the Resurrection, otherwise they would be denying the Apostolic Gospel.
Hope that helps!
In summary — 1) The disciples had doubts about the Resurrection until Pentecost when they were given the understanding of it … so 2) Believers today all understand the Resurrection so they will never doubt it.
Also, here are some verses on assurance of salvation that I thought may help….
1) James 1 – he that doubts cannot expect anything from God. However, believers *can* expect lots of things from God. So doubters are not believers. In fact, someone who doubts is “unstable in ALL his ways”. Now, are believers “unstable in ALL their ways”? Of course not! Believers are stable about the gospel – they do not waver at all. So a doubter, who is unstable in all his ways, is not a believer.
“For the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, being driven by wind and being tossed; for do not let that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double_soiled man, not dependable in all his ways.” (Jam 1:6-8)
2) John 4:14 – believers never thirst for salvation. Now, if a believer doubted they were saved, they would be thirsty for salvation. Think about it. If you thought you were going to hell, then you are thirsty foe salvation. So, believers – who never thirst for salvation – must never doubt they are saved.
“but whoever may drink of the water which I will give him will not thirst, never! But the water which I will give to him will become a fountain of water in him, springing up into everlasting life.” (Jn 4:14)
3) 2 Corinthians 13:5 – those that cannot perceive Christ in them are not saved. Now, when someone doubts their salvation, they cannot perceive Christ in them. They examine their heart, but they cannot find the words of Christ sealed in their conscience. After all, if someone doubting their salvation had faith in Christ, then they would recognise their faith, and think, “I believe in Christ, so I must be a believer. And because believers are saved, I must be saved.” Of course, someone doubting their salvation does NOT believe in Christ. If they did, they would recognise their faith, and know they are saved!
“Or do you not yourselves perceive that Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are reprobates?” (2 Cor 13:5)
4) 2 Peter 1:1 – all believers have the equally precious faith to the apostles. And since the apostles never doubted their salvation, neither will believers today. Think about it. If you doubt your salvation, but Paul did not, you don’t have the faith of Paul. If you cannot say, “He will guard my deposit til the final day” and “Christ loved me and lay down His life for me”, then you don’t have apostolic faith!
“Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained equally precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Savior Jesus Christ.” (2 Pet 1:1)
5) “For we have become partakers of Christ, if truly we hold the BEGINNING OF THE ASSURANCE FIRM TO THE END” (Heb 3:14) So only those who have the assurance of faith from the beginning til the end, are believers? “but Christ as Son over His house, whose house we are, IF TRULY WE HOLD FAST THE BOLDNESS and rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.” (Heb 3:4) If someone has doubted their salvation, have they had BOLDNESS and FIRM HOPE at all times? Heb 3:4 says that only those who have this hope to the end are saved.
Keep in touch,
Andrew Bain
Hi Andrew,
I took time to write a responce to your email letters. How would you like me to send it to you?
Peter
“Why do most Calvinists doubt their salvation?”
Since when? I’m a Calvinist and I don’t doubt my salvation, why? Because God is taking care of it. Wow! Consider that, God is actually in control! Stunning, huh?
Are you a “Christian”?
I’m a calvinist and I do not doubt my salvation.
I have doubted my salvation, but I don’t now, I know I’m a child of God.
Just a little sidenote. If non christians can have no knowledge of God, then why does it say in the Bible that “even the demons fear God”. Why would they fear him? They fear him because they KNOW his power and they know about God. And your statement “why do most calvinists doubt their salvation” is completely off, because i seriously doubt you have done a huge poll for them, and i doubt that you have compared that poll with the number of noncalvinists that doubt. So before, you go make judgements, maybe you should get your facts straight first and actually apply logic and knowledge to your statement.
-Josiah
Hey,
I just read your paper on assurance of perserverance of the saints. I do disgree with it. First of all, you rarly use scripture to help your view. Secondly, you don’t understand fully the reformed baptist view. I’m short on time, but I will hopefully be back to let you know. Also, can you explain how you believe in limited atonement and not once saved always saved? Christ blood as you said, will only save the choosed people before the world. I got to go. Let me know!
In Prayers,
-Davitow
(www.agapejustin.blogspot.com)
Andrew’s epistemology is self-defeating.
http://www.xanga.com/razzendahcuben/498210577/item.html