Month: September 2006

  • John Piper on the Psalms

    Imagine for a moment if a preacher got up in the pulpit and interpreted the parable of the sowers, without looking at Christ’s interpretation of what the soils represent. There would be something HORRIBLY WRONG. In the same way, when Piper interprets the Psalms without looking at how Christ and the Apostles interpreted them, he is setting Himself above God and exalting himself as the interpreter of prophecy (which Peter says is role only of the Holy Spirit).

    Piper’s view of the Psalms saddens me. Many of the Psalms describe Christ’s suffering on the cross. Yet, Piper says these Psalms are David’s experiences. And therefore, PIPER IMPLIES THAT BELIEVERS SHOULD EXPERIENCE GOD’S WRATH. For example, Piper says that God hides his face from believers, when in reality, the Psalms he quotes are describing Christ under the wrath of God. In this post, you are going to see that Piper is trying to put believers under the wrath that Christ experienced on the cross!

    Piper writes,

    “Most of you … when you read the Psalms you see yourselves so often.     The experience of the psalmist is your experience.” http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Sermons/ByDate/2000/1_I_Will_Meditate_on_All_Your_Work_and_Muse_on_Your_Deeds

    Piper must have a congregation of people as perfect as Christ !

    How else could they “see themselves” in the Psalms? Are the following Psalms part of ”their experiences”?

    “O Jehovah, judge me according to my righteousness, and according to my integrity on me.” Psa 7:8. Or are they the words of Christ? Psalm 7 contains the same words as Psalm 35, which is applied in John 15:25 to Christ.

    “I will behave myself in a perfect way … I will not know evil” Psa 101:4

    “Jehovah rewarded me according to my righteousness; according to the cleanness of my hands He has repaid me.” Psa 18:20. Or isn’t Christ the only one with “clean hands? Psalm 18 contains the same words as Psalm 2 which is applied to Christ in Acts 4:25 and Hebrews 1:5.

    There are so many problems with saying the Psalms describe David’s experiences. Not only would you have to say David was perfect — “I will behave myself in a perfect way … I will not know evil.” Psa 101 — you must also say that David came under the wrath of God. 

    Ask yourself.

    Do you think that God’s hand is “heavy” on believers? (Psalm 32:4). Or isn’t this describing Christ on the cross? Psalm 32 contains the same words as Psalm 38 which is applied to Christ in Luke 23:49.

    Does God “sink arrows” into believers? (Psalm 38:2)

    Do you think that believers are “not able to look up”? (40:12). Or doesn’t Hebrews 10:6 say this Psalm is about Christ?

    Does God have “anger and wrath” upon those that are NO longer children of wrath? and do you think God “lifts up and casts down” believers? (102:10). Or isn’t Psalm 102 applied to Christ in Hebrews 1:10,11?

    Piper’s view of the Psalms saddens me. Many of the Psalms describe Christ’s suffering on the cross. Yet, Piper says these Psalms are David’s experiences. And therefore, he implies that believers should experience the wrath of God.

    For example, Piper writes,

    So here is Asaph in Psalm 77 praying and struggling with darkness and discouragement and with a sense of the distance of God. …Now there is a typical struggle in the Christian life. The FEELING THAT GOD IS NOT FAVORABLE. That his lovingkindness has ceased. … That his COMPASSION HAS RESCINDED. … I say that is typical struggle.     (    http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Sermons/ByDate/2000/1_I_Will_Meditate_on_All_Your_Work_and_Muse_on_Your_Deeds)

    Piper says that God hides his face from believers, when in reality, the Psalms he quotes are describing Christ under the wrath of God ! Piper is trying to put believers under the wrath that Christ experienced on the cross!

    Piper is right that God was NOT favorable towards the person in Psalm 77. His compassion had indeed been rescinded from the person in Psalm 77 and His lovingkindness had ceased. “My voice is to God, and I cry; my voice is to God, and He gave ear to me. In the day of my distress I sought the Lord; my hand was open in the night and did not grow numb; my soul refused to be comforted. I remember God and am troubled; I meditate and my spirit faints.” (Psa 77:1-3)

    Who is this but Jesus Christ who did undergo God’s wrath? And “who in the days of His flesh was offering both PETITIONS and entreaties to Him being able to save Him from death, with STRONG CRYING AND TEARS, and being heard from His godly fear”

    Psalm 77 contains the same words as Psalm 22 which is applied to Christ in Matthew 27:37,43,46, and in Luke 23:35 and Hebrews 2:10.

    Moreover, if you follow Piper’s teaching, you will have to say that believers spend “time in the pit of destruction”. He writes,

    “We must learn to wait for the Lord. King David gave us an example of this in Psalm 40: “… He drew me up from the pit of destruction, out of the miry bog.” Here is a man after God’s own heart (1 Sam. 13:14), WHO SPENT TIME IN “the PIT OF DESTRUCTION” and in “the miry bog” — where there was no song in his mouth. How long was he there? We are not told.” (When I Don’t Desire God, p42).

    Isn’t Piper saying that there IS condemnation for those in Christ Jesus? To say that a believer spends time in the “pit of destruction” is equivalent to saying that believers come under the wrath of God.

    On the other hand, it would be consistent to say that Christ went into a “pit of destruction” on the cross, wouldn’t it? And doesn’t Hebrews 10:6 say this Psalm is about Christ?

    But Piper chooses not to follow the Apostles (who only applied the Psalms to Christ and not to David).

    Piper says that God hides his face from believers, when in reality, the Psalms he quotes are describing Christ under the wrath of God ! Piper is trying to put believers under the wrath that Christ experienced on the cross!

    He writes,

    “Again and again the psalmists cry out to God that he not hide his face from them. For example in Psalm 27 (verses 7-9) David says, Hear, O Lord, when I cry aloud, be gracious to me and answer me! …Hide not thy face from me.” Hide not thy face from me,” is the same as saying, “Be gracious to me!” … If he TURNS HIS FACE AWAY, WE ARE DISMAYED.”
    http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Sermons/ByDate/1986/532_Blessed_are_the_Pure_in_Heart/
     
    But isn’t Psalm 27 applied to Christ in Matthew 26:60?

    Does Piper care what the New Testament says?

    Imagine for a moment if a preacher got up in the pulpit and interpreted the parable of the sowers, without looking at Christ’s interpretation of what the soils represent. There would be something HORRIBLY WRONG. In the same way, when Piper interprets the Psalms without looking at how Christ and the Apostles interpreted them, he is setting Himself above God and exalting himself as the interpreter of prophecy (which Peter says is role only of the Holy Spirit).

    The truth is that God NEVER hides his face from believers and believer do NOT undergo the wrath of God.

    Sadly, the reason Presbyterians and Reformed folk doubt their salvation is because they make faith MYSTICAL. They say that it is “more than belief”. Countless Reformed folk — Boston, Warfield, Hodge, Calvin, Luther, Spurgeon, Owen etc — have said that it’s possible to believe the gospel in your “head” and not in your “heart”. And that is possible to “assent” to the gospel but not have “faith” in Christ.

    And if faith is “more than belief”, what in the world is it? I expect you will give me a very confusing definition!

    And such confusing definitions — saying faith is “more than belief” — make assurance of salvation impossible. We’ll never be able to know whether or not we have this mystical thing called “faith”.

    Let’s stick with the Scripture. Abraham had faith in God and this is defined as him being “FULLY PERSUADED OF THE PROMISES OF GOD”.

    And, according to the Apostle Paul, there is only “ONE FAITH” ( Eph 4:5). Now, if one believer could be doubting their salvation, whilst another believer had full assurance, then wouldn’t they have TWO DIFFERENT FAITHS? Can one man know and believe that he “IS JUSTIFIED”, whilst another man doubts his justification, and it be said that both men possess the same “ONE FAITH”? Of course not. The man doubting his salvation does NOT have “equally precious faith” with the Apostles.

    Now, the most likely reason this man doubts his salvation is because he says faith is “more than belief”. And if faith is more than belief, it is mystical, and it will be impossible to work out whether or not we have it.

    Faith in Christ is simply intellectual assent to the gospel. God says, “HEAR and your soul shall live” ( Isa 55:3). I hear what God says and believe it, so I live. Faith is simply HEARING and BELIEVING what God says. And this is how believers in the Scripture realised they were saved. They based the evidence of their salvation on their belief of the truth. “And HEARING, the nations REJOICED and glorified the Word of the Lord” ( Acts 13:48). The nations rejoiced straight way because they based the evidence of their salvation on their BELIEF OF THE TRUTH”.

    “But these have been WRITTEN THAT YOU MAY BELIEVE that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.” ( Jn 20:31). Therefore, 1) anyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is saved and 2) faith in Christ is simply believing what is written about Him. “Everyone BELIEVING that Jesus is the Christ IS BORN OF GOD”

    And “He that believes God has the witness IN HIMSELF” ( 1 Jn 5) Can someone have God manifested in their conscience, and not know it ? It is possible to have the witness “in yourself” and doubt for even a moment that you have it?

    You never doubt that you exist, do you? That’s because you have evidence – you HAVE THOUGHTS – and only those that exist can think.

    In the same way, I can never doubt I am a believer. That because I have the evidence – I HAVE BELIEF in the gospel – and only believers can believe!

    The Scripture clearly says that all believers know that

    1) God promises salvation through Christ’s righteousness and blood to all who believe/assent, and

    2) they believe God’s promise and therefore are saved.

    ALL the OLD TESTAMENT SAINTS had FULL ASSURANCE of salvation:

    “These all died by way of faith, not having received the promises, but seeing them from afar, and being PERSUADED, and having embraced and CONFESSED that THEY ARE STRANGERS and tenants on the earth.”

    This passage says that not only were OT saints persuaded of the gospel. Noah, Enoch and Abraham ALSO knew and confessed that they were destined to heaven (and strangers on earth). They confessed that they were destined for heaven, not hell. “The fathers” knew they were saved.

    And God says that New Testaments saints have a GREATER understanding than the OT saints!! If the fathers knew they were saved, how in the world could a NT saint — with more light — doubt ???

    “And having obtained witness through the faith, these all did not obtain the promise, God having foreseen SOMETHING BETTER CONCERNING US, that they should not be perfected apart from us.”

    Moses veil is now removed and NT saints see God manifest in the flesh. They see Him obeying the Law to the death for His sheep.

    The OT saints did not have the full understanding of believers today, but they were SO CONFIDENT in God’s promises that they…

    “received trial of mockings and of floggings; yea, more, of bonds and of prison: they were stoned; they were tried; they were sawn in two; they died by murder of sword; they went about in sheepskins and in goatskins, being in need, being afflicted, being ill-treated;”

    How could they have undergone these trials if they doubted God was their Justifier and Savior?

    “By faith “Enoch” was translated so as not to see death, … For before his translation, he had OBTAINED WITNESS to have been pleasing to God.”

    Enoch knew that God was well pleased with him because of God’s promise of salvation to all that believe in His Seed. Do you have the faith of Enoch?

    “Abraham … LOOKED FORWARD TO A CITY having the foundations of which the builder and maker is God.”

    “Moses … counted the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt, for he was LOOKING TO THE REWARD.”

    Abraham and Moses knew the city and reward was theirs. These men are patterns for all believers. So, if you do not know whether or not you have the reward — Christ’s righteousness and blood — you are not a believer.

    “… others were beaten to death, not accepting deliverance, THAT THEY MIGHT OBTAIN a better resurrection.”

    “These all died by way of faith, … being PERSUADED, … For those saying such things make clear that THEY SEEK A FATHERLAND. And truly if they remembered that from which they came out, they had time to return. But now they stretch forth to a better, that is, a heavenly land. Therefore, God is not ashamed of them, for Him to be called their God; for He prepared a city for them.”

    God has promised that 1) Christ’s righteousness is upon all those that believe, and that 2) Christ mediates for their sins through His Atonement.

    The OT saints knew this and today believers have way more light than the OT saints.

    Do you have the full assurance of the OT saints?

    Extra
    - What about Psalm 51?     http://Godnoliar.com/psalm51.htm
    - List of all the Psalms proving they are not about David http://Godnoliar.com/psalmslist.htm
    - How are we to interprete the Psalms http://Godnoliar.com/psalms.htm

  • John Piper’s Contradiction


    Piper writes,

    “The Bible seems to say that people can know God by natural means and yet cannot know God by natural means. How shall we explain this? You can see the APPARENT CONTRADICTION most clearly perhaps in tension between Luke 10:22 and Romans 1:21. In Luke 10:22 Jesus says, “No one knows who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.” And Romans 1:21, speaking of everyone says, “Even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks.” This is referring to the knowledge that all men have through nature….” (p286, The Pleasures of God)

    My comment: Piper’s right. It certainly is contradictory to say that 1) man naturally has the knowledge of God, and yet 2) maintain that only the Spirit of God can give man the knowledge of God.

    And if Hebrews 11 says is it BY FAITH we know the worlds were framed by God, can we say man knows that BY NATURE? It is by faith or by nature ? If we know by nature, then why does Hebrews 11 say we know ”by faith”?

    Could it be that ALL MEN HEAR the truth about God (that explains Romans 1) but they do not believe what they hear and thus do not possess the knowledge of God (that would explain Luke 10) ?

    That would be a consistent logical explanation — all men hear the truth about God but do not believe what they hear.

    “the nations who have HEARD YOUR FAME will speak, saying, Because Jehovah…” Numbers 14:15

    “King Darius WROTE to ALL THE PEOPLES, the nations, and the languages who were LIVING IN ALL THE EARTH … ‘there shall be trembling and fear before the God of Daniel ….” Daniel 6:25

    Indeed, when Bildad was arguing with Job about the nature of God, he appeals to a knowledge of God handed down from generation to generation.

    “Does the Almighty pervert the right? … For now ask of the FORMER GENERATION and prepare to the search OF THEIR FATHERS; … SHALL THEY NOT TEACH YOU, speak to you, and bring forth words out of their heart?” (Job 8:3,8,10)

    Bildad is saying that the former generations would teach them about God, and speak to them about God. So God maintained a witness among the Gentiles where Bildad and Job lived by causing the knowledge of Himself to be handed down from generation to generation. This is why     Numbers 14:15 says the nations “HEARD” about the fame of Jehovah. Revelation comes by WORD OF MOUTH.

    Again, could it be that ALL MEN HEAR the truth about God (that explains Romans 1) but they do not believe what they hear and thus do not possess the knowledge of God (that would explain Luke 10) ?

    Sadly, Piper does not see this as explanation. Instead, he proposes that it’s possible for a man to believe in the True God — to have “a correct view of God” — yet be lost. Piper sees a dichotomy between believing “the facts about God” and “seeing the beauty and value of God”.

    “So there are two ways to think about knowing God. One way is that the mind takes in rel event FACTS about God which, rightly weighed, would yield a CORRECT VIEW OF GOD. This kind of knowledge can be disapproved of and suppressed — even subconsciously. The other way to think about knowing God is that the mind rightly weighs and assesses what God has revealed of himself in nature and in the Word. This way of knowing yields a knowledge of God that accords with the full range of truth, INCLUDING HIS VALUE as well as His existence and external attributes. HIS MORAL BEAUTY — his glory — is part of God’s reality and is rightly known only when it is rightly assessed. … We will never SEE the BEAUTY and VALUE of God for what it really is without God’s immediate supernatural self-revelation.” (p286, The Pleasures of God)

    No wonder Piper sometimes has doubts about his salvation. How can he be sure he’s not just “believing God’s moral beauty IS A FACT” and not “seeing” it? What’s the difference between believing the fact that “God has moral beauty” and “seeing” it ? The dichotomy is confusing and destroys assurance of salvation.

    We must DENY the unregenerate any knowledge of God, and this means in order to answer the question “Am I saved?” we simply think “Yes, I have the knowledge of the True God, therefore I am saved.” Only the good soil “understood” the Word (see the parable of the soils). In other words, the other soils had no “root”, that is understanding. The difference between the unregenerate and the regenerate is UNDERSTANDING.

    Isaiah 1:3 says that oxen know their master, but unregenerate Israel did not know God. So the unregenerate have NO knowledge of God at all! Animals have more knowledge of their masters, than the unregenerate do about God.    By implication,     if we DO understand God’s gospel — that He imputes righteousness to the elect and declares them righteous — then we must be regenerate! We are not unregenerate like the unbelievers (who are just FLESH, Genesis 6:3, and have completely lost the image of God for “EVERY thought of their heart is evil continually”). The unregenerate do not have God in their knowledge (Romans 1). And this is why Jeremiah 31 says God HAS TO write His laws on someone’s heart when they are converted. Before conversion, a man does NOT have God’s law on His heart but “his conscience is seared as with a hot iron” and he “calls good evil and evil good … light darkness and darkness light”. Unregenerate man is so confused, he doesn’t even know the difference between good and evil! 

    So, if you understand and believe in God’s Law and Gospel you must be regenerate (the Law teaches that God demands PERFECTION, and condemns those without Christ’s perfect righteousness. The Gospel says that Christ IMPUTES the righteousness and ATONES for His sheep).
     
    You can imagine what a radical change of mind conversion must be, if the unconverted have absolutely no idea who the True God is. Romans 10 says when a man is called by God, His voice COMES FROM BEHIND the man and saying “this is the way”. 2 Corinthians 4:6 says believers are as PASSIVE in perceiving the truth, as we are in seeing the sun. It’s up to God to manifest His authority in a man’s conscience and convert the man to the Gospel of Imputed Righteousness. Because     natural man is intellectually dead, and God must give him the understanding (1 John) and shine the light of Christ into his mind.

    Now, ask yourself. When God does convict a man for the first time of His existence, can the man ever doubt he has been converted? Could a man go from complete darkness into the light, and ever doubt he is in the light? It is possible to go from having NO knowledge of God at one point, to KNOWING THE TRUTH, and not realise you have been converted?

    Or, “Do you not perceive that Christ is in you, UNLESS YOU ARE REPROBATES?” (2 Corinthians 13:5). For “He that DOUBTS is doubled minded in all his ways, … let NOT that man expect anything from God.” (James 1). Believers “NEVER thirst for … everlasting life” they ALWAYS have full assurance of salvation (John 4:14) and at all times can cry “abba father”.

    God says ALL believers are JUSTIFIED. To think “I am believe but I am not justified” is to call God a liar. To say, “I believe but am not sure if I am saved”, is to accuse God of LYING. It is saying God lied when He said, “EVERYONE believing in this One IS JUSTIFIED”.


    Note — on the faith of demons http://Godnoliar.com/demons.htm

    on Romans 1 http://Godnoliar.com/rom1.htm

  • John Piper writes


    ==== “The evidence that the Holy Spirit presents to our own spirits and to the community is first of all the evidence of love. The Spirit puts within us a humble heart of love and so gives evidence of his presence and power…. Assurance will diminish in the presence of concealed sin…We must often wait patiently for the return of assurance.” ====

    Is it any wonder that Piper’s assurance is “diminished” when he sins greviously?

    Notice from the quote above that he is basing his assurance on his humility and love. It’s his “humble heart” that proves to him he is saved. This means that     when he sins greviously – for example, showing a lack of humility — his “proof” has disappeared, and he loses his assurance. In other words, Piper has made his assurance dependent on his works, and will have doubts about his salvation whenever he realises how far his works fall short of God’s Law.

    There is a major problem with basing our assurance on our works. If we have to base our assurance on our works, the more we come to understand the Bible, the less assurance we will have. How ironic!! Because the more we understand the demands of God’s law, the more we will see how far short we fall of it. And if we are basing our assurance on our works, we will LOSE OUR ASSURANCE as we see more and more how much our works fail to meet the requirements of the Law.

    Don’t get me wrong. It is true that all believers experience love and humility. However, these are not the basis of assurance. In fact, believer obey God of THANKS and gratitude. They obey because they already know God saved them! And HOW do they know he has saved them? Because they believe the facts of the Gospel. Indeed, if belief is sufficient proof we are saved, and believers are sealed at all times as believers, then we will never doubt our salvation. The belief in the Gospel will always prove to us we are saved.

    Or was Paul wrong when he said in Colossions 2:2 that they should be COMFORTED because they UNDERSTOOD? Aren’t we to base the evidence our salvation on our belief of the truth?     The Apostle also said to the Roman believers, may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace IN BELIEVING” Rom 15:13. Why did the Romans have peace and joy? How did they know they were saved? What evidence proved to them, they were saved? It was their belief of the truth!! They were to have their peace and joy “IN BELIEVING”. Paul says NOTHING about finding their peace and joy in their good works.  And to the Hebrews, he said, “let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance OF FAITH, our hearts having been sprinkled from an evil conscience” Heb 10:22. Why were Hebrews to draw near to God? Was it because they looked at their works? No!!! The reason they knew they were saved was by their BELIEF. They were assured because of their FAITH.

    We are at a crossroads. Shall we follow Piper down a road that destroys assurance of salvation? He is teaching that…