March | 2007 | andrew_c_bain's Xanga Site

John Piper Denies Total Depravity?

** John Piper says unbelievers have a nature that spreads an aroma of sanctity and reverence

“[Speaking to his congregation, he says] … BEWARE OF DESPISING ANYONE. Every time you disapprove of someone – a politician, a colleague, a church member or leader, a person of another culture or race – remember that God has written his law on that person’s heart and given him or her the knowledge of himself. This is to be marveled and wondered at, not despised. HUMAN NATURE in the image of God, fallen and depraved as it is, SHOULD nevertheless SPREAD THE AROMA OF SANCTITY AND REVERENCE over all our repugnance or disagreement. THERE IS AN HONOR THAT BELONGS TO MAN as man in the image of God, who wrote his law on all our hearts.”{1}

{Question for JP: Unbelievers have a nature that spreads an aroma of sanctity and reverence??? And unbelievers are in the image of God? I thought Jude 1:10 says they are “brute beasts” and Genesis 6 says they are just FLESH – they’re now in the image of the devil! He “works in their hearts”, “blinds their thoughts” (2 Cor 4:4) and all unbelievers are “deceived”, “darkened in the intellect” (Eph 4). Obviously, they are NOT in the image of God – in fact, unbelievers don’t even know the difference between good and evil – they call “light, darkness and darkness light”! And “by the mouth the heart overflows” (Luke 6). So the confusion and stupidity that comes out of unbelievers’ mouths shows us that there is NO TRUTH IN THEM}

** JP says that all the sinful desires of unbelievers are actually desires for God

“… we all know that the beauty we crave for our physical eyes is only satisfying if we see it as the outward form of a deeper moral, spiritual, and personal beauty, ultimately God’s Beauty. … Whether you know it or not, ALL THE LONGINGS OF YOUR LIFE FOR BEAUTY ARE LONGINGS FOR THIS: “THE LIGHT OF THE GOSPEL of the beauty of Christ who is the image of God. Turn to Jesus as Lord! Open yourself to the Spirit of Christ. And the veil will be lifted. … I think, is that there is in every person a God-given sense that beauty must have meaning that is larger and more permanent than personal quirks. THIS URGE FOR ULTIMATE MEANING IS EVIDENCE OF OUR CREATION IN THE IMAGE OF GOD.” {2}

{My Comment: Apparently, the fact that unbelievers have an “urge for ultimate meaning” proves God exists. Well sure – its logically *possible* that the urge in unbelievers for meaning was implanted there by a god. But is this the only logical possibility? Of couse not. According to Piper’s logic – couldn’t there be many gods, and they all chose to implant an “urge for meaning” in man? Remember, there are often MULTIPLE architects behind one building. So Piper’s logic no more proves the existence of many gods (who could have implanted the urge), than it proves the existence of one god. Piper is committing a logical fallacy and should read Hebrews 11:3 – man by nature does NOT know “deep down” that God created the worlds – it’s only by BELIEF in God’s word that a man can know, understand and believe that fact.

The age-old argument from design (there is evidently design, so the God of the Bible is true) is completely fallacious. It no more proves that Jehovah exists, than it proves Allah exists! Drop the arguments and accept that it’s “BY FAITH (belief) men understand that God created the worlds”. We don’t understand that through your logical fallacies, OK??}

** Back in 1993, JP said Bill Clinton is in the “likeness of the living God”

“My question today is: How can I as a pro-life Christian honor President-elect Bill Clinton… We will honor you, Mr. President … by acknowledging that you are a man, created in the image of God, and distinct among all the beings in the world … You are not a mere animal. You have the glorious potential, like all humans, of being a child of God (if you aren’t already) and shining like the sun in the kingdom of God for ever and ever. WE HONOR YOU AS AN UTTERLY UNIQUE, HUMAN BEING CREATED IN THE IMAGE AND LIKENESS OF THE LIVING GOD WITH UNTOLD POTENTIAL.”{3}

{Q for JP: is Bill Clinton really “an utterly unique, human being created in the image and LIKENESS OF THE LIVING GOD with untold potential”? What do God and Bill Clinton have in common?}

** JP Tells Unbelievers they are “like God” …

“When you are alienated from God you are always alienated from yourself. … You were made by God in the image of God for God. These are the three main things about your identity as a human being; YOU ARE made by God, LIKE GOD, for God. Therefore CONVERSION IS “COMING TO YOURSELF” as well as coming to God. It is discovering where you came from and who you are and why you exist. Running from God is always a running from ourselves. Repentance is waking up to this truth.”{4}

{Q for JP: Unbelievers are “like God”? And conversion is “coming to yourself”?? Also — Piper over and over tells unbelievers that they “have truth in them”, “know God and his law” and “have God’s voice in them”. I wonder – Why does Piper have to remind unbelievers of this so much? If they actually have the “voice of God in them”, wouldn’t they know it already? Or, can you have the voice of God in your conscience, and not even know it? The problem is – Why is Piper saying that God’s voice in the unbeliever’s conscience is USELESS? The unbeliever has the ability to suppress, ignore and forget the voice of God in their conscience (according to Piper). That’s just another way of saying that the will of man can overpower the truth of God. Clearly, the reason unbelievers don’t believe is — THEY ARE WITHOUT TRUTH — their minds are full of lies, logical fallacies and confusion. Proverbs says they are “void of understanding”! This view says that IF GOD PUTS TRUTH IN SOMEONE THEY WILL LOVE AND OBEY IT. (See the whole Bible) But Piper would lead us to think that unbelievers do have understanding and truth in them and YET can ignore, supress and forget about the truth. Talk about making the truth of “none effect”, JP!}

** And after telling unbelievers that they are “like God”, Piper also says that God desires to save all unbelievers

“If you don’t find God and his ways and promises satisfying, and you turn to the world as your real love, then you put emotion between you and God and bring down the wrath of God. … GOD IS JEALOUS FOR YOUR AFFECTION and admiration. He has created you so that he might be your supreme love and satisfaction.” {5}

{This teaching that unbelievers have the image of God and dignity has implications. It means that there is something in unbelievers for God to love. God would literally see some of his own character in the unbeliever (the unbeliever would be in his image or a reflection of himself). And God would admire that part of the unbeliever (since it reflects himself). And with God on their side – to some extent – that would mean that all unbelievers have some ground of hope. And Piper gives unbelievers some hope and says, “God is jealous for your affection”. What a weak “god” (Piper’s god). Your god just can’t get what he wants, can he?? He wants the affections of all unbelievers, but can’t get them!}

** JP says unbelievers “deserve respect” and that some unbelievers are better (less depraved) than others …

“The first ground of respect is that every person has been created in the image of God, no matter what. So YOU CAN EVEN HAVE A KIND OF RESPECT FOR A MURDERER, by holding him accountable and punishing him, unlike you would do with a snake if it killed a man. But in every day life there are different degrees and different kinds of respect, and these are emphatically based on what we see. … Religion matters too–we should have LESS RESPECT FOR A PERSON WHOSE RELIGION IS SATANISM and who engages in satanic ritual abuse, THAN WE DO, say, FOR A JEWISH PERSON who strives to live by the ten commandments.” {6}

{Q for JP: Are Jews any better than Satanists — see John 8 – whom did Christ say the father of the Jews is? His name starts with a D! And seriously — what’s with saying that some unbelievers deserve more respect than others? If we esteem one unbeliever above another, aren’t we saying that one unbeliever is LESS depraved than another? Or that some unbelievers are more righteous than others?}

** JP says the dreams and regrets of unbelievers is the image of God in them

He says, “… is this all that life is – the accumulation of memories? The closing of one chapter after another? … Or does this very ACHE IN OUR HEART – this reflex of rebellion against the closing of chapters – SIGNIFY THAT WE ARE MADE FOR SOMETHING MORE? Something future? Something permanent? … Is this IMMENSE LONGING in my heart to experience something precious and deep and true and beautiful and personal and satisfying that is permanent and not passing away … you and I are created in the image of God. … All that makes your life personal, rather than mechanistic – all your love and all your sense of justice and duty and right and wrong and ALL YOUR REGRETS and DREAMS – ARE THE ECHO OF THE IMAGE OF GOD in you and PROVE to your own conscience that you are a person in the presence of a living Creator…” {7}

{Q for JP: So, “longing … in your heart … to experience something precious” proves that God exists? Hmm. Your longings fluctuate, don’t they? Sometimes you’re more concerned with have meaning in your life, than other times? Sometimes you long for, and desire things, more than at other times. Well, that must mean that the evidence and proof of God’s existence fluctuates. Because longing = the proof God exists and so if longing fluctuates, so would the proof for God’s existence. Wow. Can’t anyone see where Piper’s arguement leads. His made his emotions the grounds for his belief in God. And since his emotions will fluctuate, so will his “evidence” of God’s existence. I’m sure he’ll have the “steadfast” hope of the Gospel! (Heb 3)

Now, I do agree with Piper that unbelievers do have deeply imbeded ideas about “a god” and “right and wrong”. They feel guilt and sorrow when they fall short of their own standards.

This raises the question: WHERE did the unbeliever get their ideas about “right and wrong” from? And how did they form the opinion that there’s “a god”?

Funnily enough, John Piper has the answer for us – Satan deludes unbelievers into believing in a FALSE GOD. And Satan makes unbelievers feel guilty when they FAIL TO OBEY THE GOD OF THEIR IMAGINATION. This, of course, “god” comes in a few slight variations – from the god of Roman Catholicism, of Arminianism etc etc.

Now, remember how Satan used Eve to deceive Adam? Well, today, Satan uses the same old tactics – only know he uses parents, teachers, pastors etc, to make unbelievers believe in a false god (and subsequently they feel guilt when they fall short of the god of their imagination).

Piper eloquently describes how a Roman Catholic teacher further deluded him into believing a false god (and how he felt guilty when he feel short of the imaginary god).

“what is mortal sin? … if you would have asked me in first grade when I was six years old, I could have told you the answer with great confidence. Because our religion teacher in first grade taught us the difference between mortal sin and venial sin. Mortal sins were the big ones—sins like murder, adultery (whatever that was), missing church on a Sunday or Holy Day of Obligation without being sick, eating meat on Friday, or stealing something big. Every other sin was a venial sin. … We were taught that one unconfessed mortal sin would wind us up in hell, whereas a million venial sins would not send us to hell, though they may lengthen our stay in Purgatory. Now, I’m not sure how many bishops of the Catholic Church today would teach this the same way my first grade teacher did. And by saying this I don’t mean to make light of my first grade teacher. GOD USED HER IN A REMARKABLE WAY TO HELP ME TAKE AT LEAST SOME SINS VERY SERIOUSLY. I’M GRATEFUL FOR THAT. But the point here is to illustrate one of the common ways the term “mortal sin” is defined, namely, as a specific serious sin.” {8}

My comment: So, it was JP’s Romanist first grade teacher that helped him “take at least some sins very seriously”. The True God did NOT write His Law on Piper’s heart. Instead, it was a Roman Catholic teacher that wrote Roman Catholic law on Piper’s heart. And it was NOT the God of the Bible convicting Piper’s conscience of sin. Rather, Piper was feeling guilty about disobeying a god of purgatory – a god that needs men to help with salvation — a god of his own imagination.

The fact of the matter – unbelievers have NO truth in them. They merely have the ideas and opinions put on them by Satan (who uses parents, teachers and pastors to delude people). Didn’t Isaiah say, ” If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM!” (Isa 8:20). So the unregenerate have NO LIGHT — no knowledge of the truth — in them. And here’s a question for Piper. How can unbelievers have God’s law on their hearts, when they have been seared “in their own conscience as with a hot iron” (1 Tim 4:2). Surely, if their consciences are seared, the Law is not there at all ! (In fact, Jeremiah 31 says God writes the Laws on a man’s hearts only when He converts the man, not before!)

Ask yourself. Does the unbeliever know God deep down, or are “All his thoughts, There is no God.” ? (Psa 10:4, ASV). If the unregenerate are saying in their heart “there is no God”, then DEEP DOWN THEY ARE ALL ATHEISTS, and do not believe in the God who saves and damns men by his own pleasure (Rom 9)

Consider also — When he was an unbeliever, did Saul (later Paul) know “deep down” that murder was a sin against the True God, or did he do it “IGNORANTLY” (1 Tim 1:13) ? Clearly, Saul HEARD about God’s Law from his childhood, but he was still IGNORANT of “the righteousness of God” (the imputed righteousness of Christ). And has a man understood the Law, until he understands how Christ had to obey it perfectly to save His people?

Of course, all men feel some guilt when they break societal norms. But when a Muslim sins, for instance, he thinks he is sinning against Allah. And when an Arminian sins, he thinks he is disobeying the pansy Arminian god. The Arminian, for example, has NO IDEA that he is actually sinning against the All-controlling Jehovah who “works ALL thing according to the counsel of His will”. And “deep down” the Arminian thinks he is responsible to a miserably weak “christ” who FAILED to save all for whom he died. The freewiller has NO IDEA that he is actually sinning against the Christ who “SAVES his people from their sins”. The Arminian is IGNORANT of the Law, because he doesn’t know Who wrote it, (the God who creates light, darkness, good, and evil — Isa 45:7 and does not save men because they are “willing or running …. or working” but according to his “mercy” Rom 9:16).

So, yes, Arminians “deep down” believe in a god — but it is a god that “cannot save”, a feeble god that wants everyone to be saved, but fails to save them — and thus they “know nothing” of the Just God and Savior (Isa 45:20-21).

You probably think this teaching is dogmatic, intolerant and exclusive. It is, just like Paul’s gospel. And ironically, it is this teaching — not Piper’s — that “LIBERATES PEOPLE FROM FEARS and desires THAT ENSLAVE THE SOUL”.

Let me how explain how this teaching gives believers full assurance of salvation AT ALL TIMES.

First, if unbelievers are “darkened in the INTELLECT” (Eph 4:18), then if you “believe” in your intellect “that Jesus is the Christ” you must be “born of God” (1 Jn 5:1). And can a man believe the Gospel, and even for a moment, doubt he is a believer of it?

Second, if Satan has “blinded the THOUGHTS of the unbelieving” (2 Cor 4:4), then if you have the “MIND of Christ” you have “known the Lord” (1 Cor 2:16). And can a believer call God a liar in this promise? Or aren’t those that doubt God’s promises, “not believing God”, that is, unbelievers (1 Jn 5:10) ?

Third, because unbelievers do “not know…the Righteous Father” (Jn 17:25) — they don’t know God — then if you believe the God who is “Just and Justifying” believers by the righteousness of Christ by putting it “upon” them (Rom 3), God assures you, that you are saved by the righteousness you believe in. And will a believer ever deny God by doubting their salvation? Of course not, they have SET TO THEIR SEAL THAT GOD IS TRUE. John 3:33. And if a believer knows God is true, could they call him a liar when he says, “EVERYONE BELIEVING IS JUSTIFIED” (Acts 13) ? No, believers are “hold fast the beginning of the assurance firm to the end” — they have assurance at all times — and “hold fast to the boldness and rejoicing in the hope” (Heb 3) — they are never without boldness and confidence that Christ’s righteousness is enough for them.

Forth, if animals have more knowledge of their masters, than unbelievers do about God (Isa 1:3, Jer 8:7), then if you possess the knowledge that Christ was “made under the Law” and is the “fulfillment of the Law for righteousness”, you must be a believer.
If unbelievers are simply “flesh” and their every thought is “evil all day” (Gen 6:5), then if you believe Christ “died according to the Scriptures” 1 Cor 15 (i.e. you believe he died for his people / the sheep only) then you believe the Gospel and are saved (Mk 16:16). And the unregenerate are “NOT KNOWING GOD” (2 Thes 1:8), so if you believe that “by the obedience of One, many shall be constituted righteous” (Rom 5:19) you have been converted to the knowledge of the Just God and Savior.

Almost every page of the New Testament says all believers ARE saved. So how could a believer ever doubt their salvation? Isn’t the promise of God a “SURE” and “STEADFAST ANCHOR FOR THE SOUL” (Heb 6), or at some times do the promises of God fail to assure believers of their salvation? Does even the faith of even the youngest believer (the faith of a grain of a mustard seed) move mountains and is without doubt (Mt 17:20), or not? Are not believers, “GROUNDED and SETTLED and NOT BEING MOVED AWAY FROM THE HOPE of the Gospel” (Col 1:23). In other words, believers never doubt their salvation, do they, because that would mean the Holy Spirit had failed to “witness to their spirits that they are children of God” (Rom 8)? And if believers have the “spirit of adoption, crying abba father”, you won’t find them wondering whether or not they believe.

CONCLUSION

Piper’s view that all men know “deep down” God destroys assurance of salvation because it makes it impossible for the believer to ascertain whether his faith is based on “innate longings for God” he has naturally, or actually based on the work of the Spirit.

Moreover, Piper’s further erodes assurance of salvation when it is added that “we can believe the promises of God and still be lost” (Future Grace, p199). After all, if belief cannot prove to a man he is saved, what can? His works? But how can he produce a “labor of love”, if he doesn’t ALREADY know he is saved ? Can a man love God, ignorant of God’s love for Him? Of course not. So works cannot prove to a man he is saved, since, in order to do the works, the man needed to already know God had redeemed him. “We love Him because he first loved us.”

Now, if we say the unregenerate “KNOW NOTHING” in themselves about God (Isa 45:20), then we will always have assurance of salvation. Because we will think, “I believe in the facts of the Gospel, and the lost know nothing of God in themselves, so I must be a believer.” Indeed, we will always be assured at all times, because we will know that the natural man CANNOT receive the things of the Spirit of God because they are FOOLISHNESS to him, and he is UNABLE TO KNOW THEM. And thus, we will think, “The facts of the Gospel are foolishness to the natural man, but they are truth to me, so I must be a believer.”

Give the lost NO knowledge of God in themselves, and be assured fully of your salvation.

On the other hand, if you give the unregenerate a “heart-pang” and “innate longing” for God, you will be forever wondering if you are simply an unregenerate seeker. Or if you say, “we can believe the promises of God and still be lost” (Future Grace, p199), you will be forever wondering if you are a “lost believer”, as Piper calls them.

Of course, don’t forget that if you have any doubts about Christ being in you, you are not saved (2 Cor 13:5).

Search the Scripture! The lost have no knowledge in them — faith is simply the knowledge of the facts of the Gospel — and thus believers know at all times they are saved, for can someone have such a simple thing as a belief of the truth, and not realise it? Of course not.

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